3 discs hurt, then not the problem??

[Judi]

After my discogram, all 3 discs hurt. L3-L5, with L5 being the worst. They were all kind of concordant pain. My surgeon said, "If all 3 discs hurt, then the discs might not be your problem"!! Anyone else been told this? Any of you 3 level ADR's, did the discogram produce your 'exact' pain, or was there some pain you usually have, but didn't experience? The discogram reproduced my 'aching' pain, but I didn't get the burning pain that I sometimes get, until several hours later and the next day. Anyone else have this?

[JeffreyD]

During my last discogram with Dr. Zeegers, all 3 of my lower lumbar discs hurt. Alot! The fourth and fifth above did not produce concordant pain.
During my first 2 discograms (different doctors), it was difficult to tell concordant from non-concordant at 2 of the levels. these were done under sedation. My Dr. Zeegers discogram was done without sedation, and my mind was much better able to discern the differences and nuances in the pain produced.

God bless,
Jeff

[Jefferson]

well...how about this story. I had been told all along that my probelm was never a disc problem.! I had been having pinpoint injections proving to them that I had a foramenal nerve root problem and then poof, The insurance decided to send me in for a discogram. I go in and then all of a sudden I have this pressure and blow out pain in the S1/ L5 that is so bad that i cannot sustain the pain: The doctor says that they can 'fix' this...They never looked back again (To my original problem that they had injected over and over again to locate this foramenal nerve trouble? Hello) So, here they wind up doing this discectomy to fix this S1/L5 and I never get to the pain that I had in the very beginning, Rule to thumb? Don't talk with me, because I think that they are all out to freakin' get you. "they?" The insurance scum sucking state owned lying bags of dirts that are not out for your best interest. I am still lying in bed dying in pain because my files are crammed full of their garbage words and misdeeds. A discogram works only if the honest docs behind the procedure is there to help you. Anyone dare?

[paulam310]

The discogram is not always the most accurate test. The doctors are often determining the results according to your reaction. But people's reaction to pain is an extremely subjective matter. I questioned the doctor who ordered the three level discogram on me, he agreed that you cannot just look at a discogram, it is just one part of the picture.

[Judi]

My discogram was done with No sedation. I thought all 3 discs were pretty achy when they injected them, but L4 and L5 were the worst. Isn't is weird that 2 years ago, with the first discogram, only L5 hurt?

If the discogram is only part of the picture, what is the rest? The CT scan shows the discs are torn. However, my doc said lots of people have torn discs leaking onto nerve roots and they're not in pain. Is this true?

[Jefferson]

I am back to appologize for going 'off'. My point was I guess to say that I did not have much faith in the test and there is some good advice here by others. The discogram works, I see - yes, if they take us unsedated. I think that they should make that a mandatory. What happened in my case was, it seemed that they blew a disc up in the procedure itself. I am told that cannot happen. Does anyone have advice on this? (I do not mean to steal the thread, only trying to help educate one another) It never hurt, never showed up in an MRI but yet after the discogram, it shows a disc bulge.

Anyhow: Judi, I am sorry that I did not talk sensibly in my first post. After seeing that you are feeling that pain 'after' the discogram, and in a different pattern of pain, I think that if the pain was an 'achy' pain and did not burn until after the discogram it makes one wonder if something occurred during the session, as mine? I am only taking stabs at what happens during these tests?

I have since wondered myself about all of my healthcare. My entire Case has been backwards and my pain worsened as the steps that were taken were only to look good on paper, not to heal me.

Possibly you are on to something that the leakage is burning on the nerve root? I really dislike it when doctors tell us that has not been proven yet it makes total sense to me! I mean, take that nerve, one that if you BURN it with a fiber optical light during an IDET...and burn me, I feel like there is HOT BACON grease all down my left leg for 9 months...Let's say that that freaked my Neuro surgeon out bigtime...
So?
Why would not the leakage of the disc burn or bother your nerve root?
Love to you, Pain free, rest always,
Jefferson........

[Mariaa]

Jeff,
I've had 2 discograms and all kinds of low back pain attributed to faulty L3,L4, and L5S1 over the years. L5S1 ~ discectomy in '89/successful and L4 discectomy in '92 failed/worse pain than before surgery (failed back surgery/syndrome).

What I can honestly say about both discograms is that when the bothersome disc was injected, I knew about it as it felt just like when my back would go out and the disc areas would have an acute type of pain, then a feeling that made it difficult for me to walk... usually followed by several days of very acute pain and then some lingering lessened by never the less still pretty disabling pain.

The PM I liked the best once told me (when asking about ESIs damaging/burning spinal nerves) that it wasn't proven that ESIs burn the nerves any worse or more than disc material leaking out on the nerves over the years, and in some persons like myself, are very helpful in calming aggravated spinal nerves down.

Every time I've mentioned disc material leaking out over the spinal nerves as a cause for pain, I've met with some "uh huhs" and an affirmative bob of the head.. so I've yet to hear one of my physician's deny this as a possibility for causing pain.

BTW, my 1rst discogram was concordant for pain at L3, L4, and L5S1 and my 2nd one at L4 and L5S1 only.

While I definately believe that at least 2 of these discs are causing pain and maybe the 3rd also, I think there are likely some other pain generators that possibibly haven't been (and won't be) because the disc degeneration is so evident on films and at least one very good solid diagnosis and reason for surgery can be found.

Good luck with your spinal diagnostics and care that you are getting.. I'm sure you will be able to glean much info from this forum as well as some other spine forums to aid you with advocacy for your own care.. take care~ Maria

[Poncho]

Hummm - The impression I am getting (correct me if I am wrong) is that they only injected 3 discs. ( I know that 3 is enough but you will see why I am asking this)

---- I may be wrong here, but I thought that when a physician performs a discogram, that there should be a "control" disc. The "control" disc meaning the test is performed on a disc with little to no pathology. I guess what I am questioning here is if you had 3 discs that were painful, was there a control disc injected also? Meaning, did they inject a total of 4 discs during this procedure and the last 3 were "bad"?

OR were they thinking that you had 2 bad discs and using the 3rd disc as a "control" and it turned out to be diseased too - if this was the case, I am surprised they didn't test a 4th disc.

In my own personal experience with discograms, they reproduced pain similar to the chronic pain that I was having on a daily basis BUT not totally. The first discogram reproduced the leg pain I was having from one level and the second discogram only reproduced low back pain/achiness. I also had a torn disc and my surgeon told me that the leg/back pain may or may not be reproduced during a discogram depending on the damaged disc's ability to be pressurized during the procedure. In my case, the severely torn disc just leaked out the dye but didn't really hurt much at all (during the disco). Nonetheless, the 2 discs in question were replaced with an ADR. Knock on wood, this has worked out okay for me thus far.

It wasn't very long ago, I was walking in similar shoes such as yours and I do remember the chronic pain and the uncertainty of the diagnostics vividly. I hope they can figure out what your pain generators are and get to the bottom of things soon for you.

Sincerely,
Poncho

[Judi]

Poncho,

No, they didn't do a 'test' disc. I'm in Canada. Noone here does 3 levels. L3 was supposed to be the control disc, and because it hurt, they didn't bother going further, I guess thinking that noone in Canada would do anything.

Did you get your discogram done by Bertagnoli? Did you just have one discogram done? I do believe that discograms can make your discs worse. They are puncturing holes in discs and pressurizing them. It only makes sense that this test could injure discs.

Glad to hear so far your surgery is a success.

[Mariaa]

The first time I had L2 as control disc and L3 and L4 tested.. I forgot~ doc said L5S1 was "shot" already so he wasn't going to test that disc.

2nd discogram had L3 L4 and L5S1 tested.. as there was a question about the annular tear in L3 and pain it may or may not have been creating.

So 3 discs tested each time~