Frustrated..

[Mark Kim]

I have been visiting doctors in the NY area to figure out the reasons for my residual pains from the microlumbar disectomy i had in 2005. Most of the doctors agree that I have permanent nerve damage in the s1 nerve root. This makes it difficult because I can not bend, twist, or do any types of movement. The discogram ruled out DDD causing the pain. I wish this were the case because I would have opted for ADR after reading about people's different experience on the boards here. Anyhow, I don't know what to do at this point. I am scheduled to get a EMG done to see how the nerves are acting and the doctors recommended taking neurotin. Well I am visiting a couple of spine doctors in CA and hopefully they tell me different news. I hope that its scar tissue causing the problem because that means that surgery is possible. Has anyone else had this experience where they have permanent nerve damage in their sciatic nerve? The pain is causing my hips and pelvis to hurt also.

[Sharon]

Hi Mark Kim,
Please can you tell me how the doctors diagnosed permanent nerve root damage at L5-S1?? I had ADR surgery at L5-S1 a year ago and the pain is still the same as before surgery. I also have pain in my hips and pelvic area.
Can you tell me which doctors you saw in New York. My surgeon is Dr Fabien Bitan out of Lennox Hill??
Thanks...

[Mark Kim]

The doctors I have seen in New York are: Dr. Michael Neuwirth, Dr. O'Leary, Dr. Goldstein, and Dr. Kiprovski (neurologist). All the doctors except Dr. O'leary told me that I have radiculopathy according to my discogram, mri, and ct scan. Dr. O'Leary thought my problem was discogenic and recommended a fusion. I am starting to believe that it is the s1 nerve root causing all this pain. The neurologist scheduled an emg/ncs for me to have in two weeks. I can give you the results of that when I find out. I am also going back to Los Angeles to see my original surgeon who was Dr. Watkins Sr. I have been to many different doctors and usually get the same opinion. It is just frustrating because I am only 27 and have to live like this. Can I ask you Sharon, when you twist or bend backwards/forwards do you get a any nerve pain down the leg and in your hips?

Mark

[LBP]

Mark,

I'm certaintly not an expert on the various medical terminology used but "radiculopathy" just means you have radiating pain. I have had 2 postive diskograms at L4/5 and l5/S1 and some of my symptoms are radiculopathy aka radiating pain (burning pain) down the back of my thighs, and tingling/numbness in my heels. I do take neurontin specifically to help with the radiating issues as well tramadol for the more biting and central back pain. I guess what I am trying to say is that radiculopathy and discogenic pain are not mutually exclusive. I have radiculopathy because of my discogenic issues aka because of my torn discs at L4/5 and L5/S1.

It seems to me like the surgeons you met haven't really spent time explaining what this all means and defined the terms they are using.
Dr. Bitan is a popular dr mentioned on this forum who has done ADR and is in NY...you can search him using the "find" tab on this forum. What about Dr. Yue in New Haven CT? Who are you going to see in CA....? Dr. Delamarter? Dr. Bae?, Dr. Reagan? Dr. Linovitz office? all socal. What about Dr. Garcia in Miami or the Texas Back Institute?

Have any of the dr's you consulted with even performed ADR? And if so, more than 5-10? It might be part of the reason why they are not recommending or mentioning adr. You also might have facet issues? Has anyone discussed your facets given your microdisectomy?

How long have you had your symptoms since the microdisectomy? Have you gone through PT and injections since your last procedure?

I think you need to keep meeting surgeons until you get answers that you understand, make sense, and make you feel confident and comfortable with your dr. But that also means you need to keep reading and trying to understand this medical mumbo jumbo so you can ask questions to get the information you need.

have you spent much time on spine-health.com? googling these terms in your reports will also help you understand things better. There are lots of websites out there that show the anatomy, and help define various terms.

[JudyW]

I'm sure when you come back to California Dr. Watkins Sr. will be able to answer most of your questions. I just had ADR on 7/31/07 by Jr. They are very knowlegable and work as a team there. Good luck.

[Mark Kim]

Hi LBP. I met with Dr. Goldstein in NY who actually does perform ADR. People on this board underwent ADR surgery with him. As he was looking at my films, he told me that he couldn't quite figure out the source of my pain because the MRI shows the herniation pinching on my disk was removed successfully. I also asked if it was scar tissue causing the pain, and he stated along with all the other doctors that they don't believe that's the cause. It's funny because my MRI reports show that there is a tiny amount of scar tissue pressing on the s1 nerve root which I am experiencing.

When I go back to CA, I am scheduled to see Dr. Watkins Sr. (who did my microlumbar disectomy) and Dr. Delamarter. I have also scheduled an appointment to see Dr. Yue.

I know along with my discogram that my facet joints are intact and show only minimal osteoarthritis. The only negative on the report about my discs is that their are dorsal radial tears that cause leakage into the epidural space.

thanks for your help. I will post my EMG results and what the doctors in california say. Hopefully they can give me a definitely answer instead of saying, I don't know.

[Sharon]

Hi Mark Kim,
I have never had any pain radiating into my legs, bending or twisting doesn't cause any leg pain.
I hope your tests can give you some answers and some peace of mind. I am 38 and feel that I am also too young to be going through this, so I know how you feel. I have been out of work since last august I spend 80% of my day laying day on the sofa even then I still can't get comfortable. I wish I could know exactly what is wrong with my back, even if I get a revision surgery there still is no absolute guarantee that it will fix the problem. I can tell you that Dr Bitan has done 500 ADR'S he certainly does have the experience. If you go to his web page you can actually watch him perform an entire ADR surgery it is very interesting to watch. His vascular surgeon Dr Hanon is really great too.

Take care,

[~~Sue~~]

Hi Mark Kim,

I know exactly what you are feeling & going through. I had 2 Discectomies in 2006, both in L5-S1 area 4 weeks apart after the disc re fragmented a 2nd time really squashing/pinning my right sciatic nerve. This caused my right foot to point to the ground and my leg muscles contracted. Now I'm feeling alot of pain in my hips and pelvis. I get sharp stabbing pains if I twist or bend, and when I'm walking get alot of pain in my left hip. It feels like ligaments or something are loose, and can't support me. Someone once mentioned that the SI joints are often overlooked as a source of pain, so maybe ask about that. The doctors I've seen just dismiss this as discogenic or possible scar tissue, but dont offer me any solutions. I now have no disc in L5-S1 so have the 2 vertebrae rubbing together, which is pleasant...not. I have now gotten a referral to see a special spinal unit in Sydney (Australia) to see about and ADR or fusion as I have had enough too. The pain medication only makes me silly and dopey, so I cope on ipobrufen.
It's good to know that there are others that have this hip/pelvic pain too & that I'm not going nuts lol
Hope you get some answers soon !!!

Mark,
Sounds similar to my situation. I had a micro-disectomy on l5-s1 a few years ago and have never been back to normal. I always have pain, and numbness down the leg.
I started to do Bikram yoga 1 1/2 years ago and this seemed to stabilize my core muscles. Unfortunately 6 weeks ago I started to have back pain for no obvious reason. This eventually went away but now when I walk I get the radiating pain down the left leg and have lower back pain. I have been sitting for the past 6 weeks.
Has anyone ever tried muscle activaion treatment or Active Release ?
I was thinking of these types of therapies next .

[GFIN]

GregFin,

I had Micro 4 months ago and have been experiencing similar problems. I have worked with an active release therapist, with limited success, and started working with the top MAT guy in Denver last week. MAT makes so much sense and I think addresses a lot of the problems that are often times associated with failed back syndrome. I also go to a clinic that runs me through the MEDX machines a couple times a week. I think that the MEDX and MAT will be a good cocktail for me. Feel free to contact me offline if you want to discuss.

Geoff