Long Term DDD Trend?

[bmills]

I see a very possible trend. People that have an injury in the recent past and end up with DDD, like in the last 3 to 5 years, then have ADR seem to end up with little or no more back pain fairly quickly. Even in a few days or weeks.

On the other hand, it seems that people like me that have sufferred for many years with DDD (like 10 years or more) and have ADR still have back pain after surgery and that it takes a lot longer to have pain improvement.

I'm not saying this is always the case by any means but it seems that people that have surgery within just a few years after the problem have faster pain improvement.

I would like responses from both sides. Especially from folks that have had many years of DDD before surgery.

Brady

[letteski]

Hi Brady

I was 10 months post injury when I had my ADR so I did not waist anytime I knew I needed to get fixed. The longer you wait the more chances of permanent nerve damage. Nerves are nothing to mess around with the longer they are pissed off the longer it will take for them to get better if at all.

I am doing quite will for 2 months post-op my back has been returned to a more anatomically correct position but my nerves are slowly showing signs of getting better. Time will tell for both of us.

[Alastair]

Hi Brady,
I can't give you exact statistics for this but it is the case that some people can seem to leave their surgery "Too Long".

It's a very fine line to be drawn between rushing into ADR, and waiting until it is totally necessary, because this is major surgery and not be rushed into. For me personally I waited about eight years. By that I mean that for eight years I was in appalling pain, taking morphine stuck in a wheelchair etc etc.

There are always going to be contrasting outcomes to ADR, and any surgery in the patient's recovery. I'm afraid when things don't come well for us quickly, we see those that it does come quickly, and as they say -- -- -- the grass is always greener.

The people who amaze me, and who I can count on the fingers in my hand, are the people who have ADR and five to six weeks later are away hunting in the woods. I can give no explanation for this at all
best,
Alastair

[Harrison]

Brady, I may have shared similar feelings as you in posts many moons ago. This is a complex anatomical issue to even describe, right? As there can be more than (just) DDD involved...

My sentiments are similar to Paulette's -- nerves don't like to be crunched for too long! Luckily, mine were not and I experienced a relatively quick recovery.

[mmglobal]

Brady... no question about your theory. This is what I see in patient community. All of the doctors I work with confirm this.

I believe that it has to do with the number of pain generators that are involved and the complexity of the problem. Long standing back problems increases the chance of additional pain generators that will not be resolved by ADR.

If what you have is discogenic low back pain and the rest of the system is in good shape, ADR can be magic. If you have painful facets, painful ligaments, additional stenosis, scar tissue........ ADR will only resolve some of your pain generators.

Mark

[Mariaa]

I'll let you know after I have surgery.. original injury in 1982. DDD starting showing up on MRIs in early 90's. I feel that most of the pain is discogenic, however, have scar tissue on rt.S1 nerve root and have been advised I will remain on Neurontin likely for that post ADR.
So far, no facet degeneration noted on MRIs..hoping that I've not waited too long and that I don't develop more scar tissue (or very minimal)...
** I have seen some people who've had this surgery with histories like mine and done remarkably well early on. It's probably the minority of cases, however, whenever I see this I feel hopeful~

[bmills]

Thanks for the responses. Since I don't have any severe facet degeneration I'm of the hope that my body, after possibley 20 years of working around a disc with DDD is just going to take more time to figure out that it does not need to hurt any longer.

All of you have just helped me and confirmed my thoughts - both positive and negative.

Alastair, I'm actually glad to hear you had your pre-surgery issues for eight years before doing the surgery. That gives me some more hope of a full recovery.

I think my ligaments and tendons have a long way to change after all of this.

15 years ago, if I had been in Germany I may have elected to receive a Charite but never had the opportunity. Here in the states I was told I needed fusion. Back then I was just too afraid of the major surgery and hated the idea of the long screws and plates being put into my spine. Back then I was able to cope with the chronic pain which would sometimes let up. That stopped in the last two years. Just could not deal with it any longer.

Slow and steady and I believe I will get pain free. It may be hard when I have to get back to work physically, sitting in long meetings, with my nearly zero sitting tolerance. I have to be able to provide for my family. So, I may have to give in and take more of the meds some days when at work.

I would still like to hear of more people that had long term LBP before surgery and if/when they got considerably better.

Mark, thanks for the confirmatioin of the theory. I hope you've also seen cases where full recovery has also occurred. Please let me know.

Thanks again.

Brady
Colorado USA

[bmills]

Mariaa, I can't wait to hear how things go with you. Your long term time frame is very similar to mine.

Thanks.
Brady

[Alastair]

Hi Brady,
Back then I was just too afraid of the major surgery and hated the idea of the long screws and plates being put into my spine. Back then I was able to cope with the chronic pain which would sometimes let up.

That soooo reflects how I felt, you are almost my twin with these feelings.
Best
Alastair

[mmglobal]

Yes Brady... I believe that long-standing problems slows the recovery process. Part of the recovery is getting used to the new configuration. Tendons, ligaments, musclses and other tissues are being asked to support you in a completely different configuration. Ligaments that have been shortened for longer periods of time will take longer to adjust.

I'm just making this up as I'm talking... but inflammatory processes may be much more advanced in people with long standing problems. It may take longer to cool them down - if possible. Remember that I'm more than 3 years out and I still must take anti-inflammatories. If I stop, I have a numb spot on the bottom of my foot that gets bigger, I get some annoying foot pain and even some axial low back pain.

I don't think I had a bad profile. I was only 46 when I had my ADR surgery. Up until 2.5 years before the surgery, I continued to play soccer, so I had an underlying fitness level that was pretty good. I was out of shape from 2.5 years of little activity... but still not too bad. Working against me was the 2 prior discectomies for massive disc protrusions. My S1 radiculopathy was back with a vengance after having been mostly resolved by the discectomy a year earlier. Also working for me was that the rest of my spine was in pretty good shape.

I think of Chuckx79's recovery as pretty complete, but taking a long time. I'm sure that there are others, but they are not coming to mind now.

Mark