Anybody have XP with Dr. Bertagnoli?

[hezeronek]

Hey all! I'm new to this forum, and really glad I found it! I ruptured L5/S1 a year ago in an auto accident, and have DDD at that level as well. I've been in contact with Dr. Bertagnoli in Germany, and am trying to round up enough cash to have an ADR. He has quoted me 22500 Euros, which ends up being about $31K US, and estimates a six day hospital stay.

I was just wondering if anybody out there has had any personal experience with him they would be willing to share? So far I have read good things about him, and studied some of his journal articles. I am just trying to get a realistic perspective about what to expect personally, physically and financially. Anything helps!

[annapurna]

Bertagonoli and Fenk-Mayer are both excellent surgeons and are pretty good to work with. They've made mistakes, as have all of the surgeons that we talk about here, but they are really good. We've not been back to Pro-spine since Anita left their office and returned to the US. Prior to Anita's being hired by Bertagonli, their office did have a tendency to be provincial and a little difficult to work with. I doubt that they've gone back to that now but they will think and work like southern Germans, which can be exasperating if you're used to dealing with Americans. Bogen is a small town in almost all senses of the phrase. Straubing is a little bigger but is still fairly small compared with Munich.

To avoid rambling, what kinds of worries do you have about Bertagonli and Pro-spine. Many here have gone to them so you can get a pretty good picture if there's something in particular you're worried about.

[hezeronek]

Thank you for posting!

I am particularly concerned with follow up care. As I do not intend to move to Germany, I realize that it may be difficult to obtain post-surgical evaluations and checkups. Also, how close was their estimated costs to actual costs? It is highly likely that my insurance plan will not cover the surgery, so I'm worried that any complications may actually put me into bankruptcy...

[annapurna]

For us, three sets of work, single level cervical ADR and two series of lumbar tests, their estimates were slightly high to very slightly low (~15 euros low). What we were told was that the admission to the hospital is a flat fee, regardless of the length of stay up to some number of days that I can't remember. Pro-spine should be able to tell you that. Additional time in the operating room may add cost as well as problems during the surgery but, if I'm right, recovery time shouldn't.

Don't plan on going home until you've past the early time when basic complications would show up like post-op infections. Figure about a week or so after you've been released for a good rule of thumb. Many stay longer, some return earlier. After the basic check-ups are complete, you can get most of your post-op checks done with flat film x-rays taken by your local doc and emailed descriptions of your condition. If you start going bad quickly, obviously a local doc who knows something about ADR is invaluable but not many people complain of that. Most people seem to undergo slow changes rather than quick ones. Hopefully, someone who's worked with Pro-spine recently can let you know how they are about replying to post-op email questions.

[Jessica]

My experience with Prospine was smooth. I received a small refund, about $200 I think. The hospital experience is different, in my opinion, it is a good different. I was not hooked up to IV's or Monitors. They have you walk down to xray, walk out of the hospital. No wheelchair unless you need one. They encourage you to walk around the hospital and even outside on the grounds. I was not a Lumbar patient, so there could be some differences.

I thought it was the best chance for me to get the best results. I did not think much about the "what if's". Having surgery is a very difficult decision. Going out of the country makes it even more difficult. I wish you luck with whatever you decide.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by hezeronek

I am particularly concerned with follow up care. As I do not intend to move to Germany, I realize that it may be difficult to obtain post-surgical evaluations and checkups. Also, how close was their estimated costs to actual costs? It is highly likely that my insurance plan will not cover the surgery, so I'm worried that any complications may actually put me into bankruptcy...

Hi Hezeronek,

Dr. Bertagnoli did my 2-level ADR close to 5 years ago. I was only 23 at the time and it was only my second trip out of the country. I got to go the BMW plant in Germany, so it was well worth having surgery.

Anyway, my wife and I were very young at the time and we got around just fine (mass transit, restaurants, sight seeing, etc.). It was actually one of the most memorable "vacations" I have had, despite being in some pain post-op.

1) I am sorry if I missed this, but are you going to a doctor now that would be willing to follow-up with you after surgery? At first, I only had my primary care doctor follow-up with me and this was more than sufficient (he is well read and extremely committed to his patients).

Prior to my surgery, I also visited with Dr. Guyer at the Texas Back Institute for a stateside ADR evaluation (discogram, etc.) and he agreed to follow me after surgery if I ended up going to Dr. B. I flew out to see him around 6 weeks post-op. (At the time, I was living in a state that was not performing ADR or even knew what it was.)

2) My quote for surgery ended up being 300 euros too much, so I got a nice refund.

3) Complications are unexpected, but can happen in any surgery. With that said, I would want to be in Dr. Bertagnoli's hands--he is extremely skilled and has performed ADR on some of the most challenging patient cases in the world. Dr. Zeegers is also very skilled and gets very high marks on this forum.

4) I still communicate with Drs. Bertagnoli and Fenk-Mayer to this day. Dr. Fenk-Mayer is good about getting back to me via email. However, she is overwhelmed with the patient load that they have so it takes ~1 week to get a reply. This is more than acceptable, as they are dealing with patients from all over the world (they are inundated with emails).

Disclaimer: These are solely my opinions and I am in no way compensated by Dr. Bertagnoli. I have the utmost respect for him. He truly gave me my life back, and for that I am forever grateful.

If you have any more questions, feel free to send me a private message.

[Harrison]

"...Disclaimer: These are solely my opinions and I am in no way compensated by Dr. Bertagnoli..."

I was surprised by this comment -- is there anyone in this community that IS making money by referring business to doctors? If there is, please do tell here or send me an email.

For new folks, this board is for patients only. No brokers, consultants or other NON-patients are welcome here. Sorry to interrupt, but this point bears repeating.

[Alastair]

Some USA surgeons I think like Dr Regan will do "Follow Up " for Dr B and Dr Z -- I don`t live in the USA but have seen this happen with patients here. Ask you local Spiny Dr about it maybe?? Drs B + Z are Gurus as far as ADR is concerned so offence to your local Dr should NOT be a problem. Ask Dr B who will do "Follow up" for him in the USA thats a better way maybe.
Best
Alastair

[hezeronek]

Originally Posted by Alastair

Some USA surgeons I think like Dr Regan will do "Follow Up " for Dr B and Dr Z -- I don`t live in the USA but have seen this happen with patients here. Ask you local Spiny Dr about it maybe?? Drs B + Z are Gurus as far as ADR is concerned so offence to your local Dr should NOT be a problem. Ask Dr B who will do "Follow up" for him in the USA thats a better way maybe.
Best
Alastair

Thanks Alastair! That's a great idea! I've been afraid of offending a few of the surgeons I have consulted with here. Perhaps Dr. B. would be willing to point me in the right direction!

[ans]

Was there any discussion of ADR vs. fusion at the L5-S1 level? Some say that ADR isn't necessitated at this level although there can be S-1 joint problems w/fusion. Nothing's easy.

Best of luck! ~ ans

P.S. So Harrison, no "love brokers" allowed here.