To Fuse or not to fuse?

[cathyr]

Hi,
My name is Cathy. I was in two rear end collisions last year about a week apart that has resulted in a large central and left C 6-7 disc herniation with moderate compression. The whiplash symptoms them selves have subsided...but the neurological deficits are really bad. I have already had 6 neurosurgeon evaluation. All say I must get this fixed as the herniation is on the cord itself and there iare signs in the MRI of myelomalacia now. The swelling has gone down. I was not able to take anti-inflammatories ....but I still have vertigo of "unknown" origins....but it gets worse when I walk, tinnitus and head and ear pressure with these headaches from hell!

First three neurosurgeons said fusion as my neck has become kyphotic. Dr. Bertagnoli says adr, dr Sabarini says adr too as neurological deficits may get worse and may not be repairable. I have numbness in hands, arms and feet...but when I sleep is when its worse...then when Im standing its better....but I get numbness in hand just holding phone....if I dont keep my neck straight....I get numbness. The pain ios bearable...actually its better but neurosurgeon #6 says that can happen too to about 10% of all spinal cord compression patients? I just dont want to go back to all that pain...but I cant walk outside...and I cant walk for more than 30 minutes at a time right now without head pain, pressure, ear pressure, vertigo, tinnitus? I have also developed some bladder issues?

Dont know what to so? I am just tired of waiting to heal...I've tried everything...even expensive DXR9000 spinal decompresson that left my practically paralyzed for 5 weeks!

Can anyone offer ANY advice?

Cathy

[rhatzy]

Cathy,

IF all you have is a bad disc and no other arthritis or real bad facets or really anything else, then an ADR is preferable and with the neck has a pretty high rate of success. The docs here in the states(I'm assuming you are in the states) mostly only know fusion because that is what they learn and that is all they do. I have two ADR's in my lower back and am pain free and doing what I want. I had to go to Germany for it but here in the states, my docs wanted to fuse 3 of my vertabrae together.

Mark

[Harrison]

Welcome to our community Cathy, I hope we can help you with some support during these tricky times for you. May I ask why you could not tolerate NSAIDs? Did you try different classes of them when you could take them?

You may find these topics of interest:

"refuse to fuse"

ADR Risks, Complications, Disqualifications

[cathyr]

Hi,
And thank you for the resources. They thought I had a concussion because I hit my head against the window...but I think it was whiplash soft tissue damage....They also thought the vertigo was related to the ear and did an ENG....I had severe nausea and vomitting with vertigo for 8 months? The ENG showed...but not conclusive....possibly vestibular damage at 30% left ear? BUT ENT Dr thinks that my vertigo, double vision tinittus is related to the disc? He calls it "vertigo of unknown origin"...because I dont have other symptoms that would point to ear damage?
I cannot take the NSAIDS as they make me spin.....I have had to ice 8-10 a day and take flexeril.....that helps with the tension headaches. I personally think the vertigo, tinnitus and double vision is related to compression of the vertebral artery on the spinal cord?

ARe there other members like me?

Dr Bertagnoli said that the neurological damage can be reversed if I do surgery now? And said neurological damage in my case is highly probable as the disc is prolapsed and on my spinal cord....I have had 3 MRI's and its still there... and it hasn't gotten smaller either?
On days that I have more pain the vertigo is less....when I walk longer the vertigo and double vision and head pressure get worse? Lying down is the only thing that is tolerable?

Cathy

[Harrison]

Cathy,

Sorry to reply with more questions, but why would NSAIDs make your head spin? What explanations have you got from docs on this? Maybe it's causing (more) temporary inflammation....when working on the existing inflammation? You mention that the spinal cord is compressed -- how many millimeters? Some people can have CRAZY MRIs with with what appears to be severe compression -- yet still have no symptoms. So this is tricky stuff. If this sounds nutty, I understand. So ask this question of your spine doctor(s).

Also, do you know if the upper cervical spine (C1-2-3) is out of alignment because of the lower cervical issue? It may be subtle, but may contribute to some of your dizziness. This is tricky, but maybe a 3rd and 4th opinion from a US doc would help.

Since I've been managing this board since 2004, I've never heard about a patient getting dizzy from NSAIDs. It doesn't mean anything statistically; I am just saying that it is unusual. I hope we can make sense of this in the days and months ahead, so pls do keep us posted.

Are you consulting other docs in your state? What state are you in? Perhaps other members could refer you to other doctors you could visit for a consult...

[cathyr]

Hi Harrison,
Yes the upper part is out of allignment. and bending forward now. The Germany Dr told me its how we avoid pain and should repair itself after surgery and bend back again to normal lordosis?

I think the NSAIDS affect the vestibular nerve in the ear (IF it is damaged... the ENT doesn't think so)...but I read on here that someone had vertigo, headaches and tinnitus and it went away with surgery. Also double vision is thought to arises from spinal cord compression...possibly due to compression of vertebral artery...called vertebral insufficiency? The ear pressure/pain can also be related to this as a lot of individuals with cervical tumors have ear pain/pressure...I am thinking this prolapsed disc is acting like that too...maybe?

All I know is that the traction (DXR900) helped me a lot with symptoms (headaches, vision, vertigo...which may be related to blood flow)....but made the neurological ones worse (numbness, bladder, burning feet)...that I had to stop because it was pointing to more compression/inflammation of the spinal cord (i.e. burning neck down, dyreflexia, numbness, bladder incontinence etc)....

Maybe getting a n ADR adding the lost height which I was getting with the traction...and liberating my spinal cord may fix things?

Cathy

[Harrison]

Cathy,

I am confused by what you are saying about decompression -- which is awfully important:

"...Dont know what to so? I am just tired of waiting to heal...I've tried everything...even expensive DXR9000 spinal decompresson that left my practically paralyzed for 5 weeks..."

And now it helped? Please explain...when you can. This data point could be very helpful as a diagnostic...or not. The spine is tricky, especially the cervical spine which is so dense with nerves. So you seem to be saying: it helps with the some symptoms (blood flow), but not the others (neuro) and may worsen them...right?

I am signing off for the night. Hope the Spanish Inquisition was helpful and not hurtful!

[tgbdp54]

There are doctors in the states starting to do them. I'm in line for a prodisc-c sometime this year for c5-6 (have fused 6-7 already in 2000). It will be the first one the practice has done, but 2 docs have been trained in it. From a fusion perspecitve, the doc I go to is one of the best in the twin cities. And most of the surgery for an ADR is the same as a fusion. As I understand, the prodisc-c is not very complicated to put in. Still don't want to be the first though, so I'm waiting.

Anyways, if you are interested in the doctor/clinic, let me know and I'll email to you. He is very conservative and will only consider ADR if the rest of the neck looks good and the disc space is favorable (in my non-doctor language).

[cathyr]

Yes...I would like the information!

Harrison...the DXR900 is a machine the chiropractors are using...its like traction....you lay down and they stretch your neck in a harness device. They do the lower back too. They day it shrinks your disc by increasing blood flow to it. Cost me $5000 for 20 sessions. Made the numbness worse to a point I was not able to walk or move either of my hands. The numbness was so bad and I was burning neck down and I couldnt hold my pee. That happens with more severe cervical compression too....and indicates spinal cord injury/compression at cervical level. The blurred vision improved a lot but not totally and the pain improved...I guess because he stretched my necK? The MRI showed he stretched the posterior ligament straiht so that it no longer compressed the back of the cord.....but the disc in the front still does and is lardge....also....my neck now bends forward more than before the treatment? Kyphotoc?

I am not too sure this was safe to do in my case because of the myelomalacia (high signal intansity signals at that level)? But my dr told me to give it a try before contemplating surgery?

Cathy

[Harrison]

Hi Cathy,

Your doctor is the only one that can advise you on the safery of any traction on your spine. If you have doubts, then consider getting other opinions. But it sounds like you will not get more treatments? Wow, $5000 is a lot of bread!

We’ve discussion the 9000 machine (and similar machines) and other traction methods many times. Here are some of the topics that I found using a quick search:

Anyone tried the "Cox Thechnic"? It's working!!!

Has anyone tried Spinal Decompression?

Distraction: VAX-D 2008, suburban chiropractic practice N=296 Prospective

drx9000 vs inversion vs surgery

Cathy, please add a signature (using the “User CP” in the upper left). Thanks!