Getting paid to promote a clinic or product.

[herron65]

To all here on this forum.
I just revived a message from a fellow spine patient here OJ the forum accusing me and another forum spine patient of getting paid or compensation from the Dr. That did our ADR operations. I will say to this person in the open forum I my self have not revived any compensation for any person or persons that have gone to him after talking to me. If this were true I would have all my credit cards paid off and my 401K loan would not be taken from my check each week, I would not still be trying to get money from my insurance company. So to this person " they know who they are" step back and take a good look at your self and your motivations because thouse who point a finger have four more pointing back at them.
Jeff

[Harrison]

Jeff, thanks for posting this. From time to time, I myself have to look more closely at the dynamics of the forum; I just wish I had more time to talk with patients. I am spending most of my time completing the film, Why Am I Still Sick.

That said, I am extremely weary of how Stenum's influence plays into online forums, given how my time, energy and money has been stolen by Stenum's people (doctors, reps and their colleagues). Case in point, I was quite alarmed to have stumbled upon Clavel's relationship with Stenum! See this topic.

I don't know is this is the same issue that you are alluding to, but I am glad you brought it up. What can I do as the administrator to help provide balance and harmony within the community? Are the guidelines I created in 2004 sufficient? Have a looksey:

ADRSupport Community - Member Guidelines & Code of Conduct

We all have our own favorite surgeons. And some patients do get special favors or deals and we've discussed this in the past. Sometimes it's a discount in exchange for marketing, sometimes commissions for bringing in other spine patients as qualified "leads." It's all rather unethical, in my opinion.

So, again, my bias is to steer clear of Stenum and their doctors. I am sorry if this offends anyone, but I wanted to remind and clarify people of my position. As well, if people feel I have any hidden agenda, I don't. Ask me anything you want about this non-profit I started five years ago, my motivations, etc.

OK, nuff said. Back to work for me.

[laid up doc]

sorry to hear someone has done that... it's terrible how some people think that one must be financially motivated to be helpful to others, or say good things about something good that changed their life for the better.

[herron65]

Harrison
Is his relation with stenum or just the proletarian here that promote stenum? I know Dr Clavel was using another medical tourism company before but then droped them because of the amount they up charged the cost to the patients. So my question is is he just using the same reps but not affiliated with stenum?
I have nothing but good words for Dr Clavel and I received no compensation for my positive words about him other than my life back.
Thank you
Jeff

[herron65]

Gotta love auto correct.

[jss]

Jeff,

I've heavily recommended four surgeons on this site (Boeree, Zigler, Clavel and Pimenta). My praise for Zigler was such (he is possibly the best ADR surgeon in the world afterall) that it was once jokingly (I think it was jokingly) suggested that I was on his payroll.

Oh well.

Jeff

[Harrison]

Jeff (Herron), good question -- I really don't know what Clavel's relationship is with Stenum, only that he's listed on their site. I wish I knew!

Everyone, take a deep breath! You all care about helping others, I know that and most everyone else does too. If you need a break, please take it. But the community needs you too...so don't forget us.

Peace & good health to you all!

[Dingie]

Okay, I had pretty much made up my mind on Dr. clavel. I will be having a L3-L4 M6. I don't have a choice to stay in the US due to metal allergies that preclude the prodisc. I was turned off immediately by the US rep for Dr. B. His female MD associate said I didn't need to worry about metal allergies. And the rep sent me an email with 3 references which he said we not "stellar outcomes" but I had asked for anyone with a medical background....creepy...and I know this may sound unkind but his manner reminded me of a used car salesman. I asked if there would be a vascular or general aurgeon int the room, he said I didnt need one because his docs were so good. I said okay humour me, I will pay extra and he got a bit agressive..I said adios. i do realize that does not reflect the ability of the MD, perhaps they just need a bett HR department.

Needless to say I am beyond terrified at making a wrong turn. I have been an ICU Shock trauma RN for nearly 30 years and have seen only the bad end of things. I don't have an issue with a MD trying to make a dollar. But it does concern me that there may be a relationship that could be detrimental in choice of discs for the patient.

Having said that, I had an MD who is from Spain but practices in the US "check it out". He said Dr. clavel has an excellent reputation in Barcelona as a neurosurgeon, Quiron Hospital is modern and safe and his family who lives in Spain go to Barcelona for complex medical problems.
Though he was shocked I was not able to receive the care I want here....sooo I guess I am just going to have to jump in as some of this I can only hope and pray is "politics.

[laid up doc]

Dingie,

I don't know any more than what has been stated here about the possible collaboration w/ Stenum... but Dr Clavel has used the M6 prior, and continue to do so. Dr Ritter-Lang, from what I have heard, largely uses the M6. The 3rd person would be Mr Boeree. I don't know of any other surgeon that uses this disc.

The only other titanium disc on the market is the Freedom - which is in US trials but the control is the Prodisc. I inquired about getting around randomization, but that was not possible.

I know that Dr Clavel does a fair # of higher lumbar ADR's, including Girth19 on here who recently had L2-5 done by him. As far as the politics stuff... I can't say what I would have done differently had that been the case going in. I will say that I my experiences w/ Dr Clavel have been nothing but positive. The care at Hospital Quiron was better than at most US hospitals, and in asking around there, it has a great reputation.

I can't tell you what to do... but there is no change in what disc he is/was using, if that was your concern.

[jss]

Dingie,

With 30 years of experience as a trauma nurse, you likely are a far better judge of all things medical than all of us on this forum combined. I would encourage you to use your intuition that has resulted from your third century in trauma medicine to your advantage. If you're not comfortable with Bertagnoli or Clavel, find a surgeon with whom you are comfortable. As you know better than most of us here, there are no mulligans in lumbar spine surgery. There are many outstanding spine surgeons out there. My favorites are; Boeree, Clavel, Pimenta and Zigler. Your allergies have eliminated Zigler and Zeegers, and you seem to be doubting your initial decision to use Clavel.

Just because many of us on this site have had excellent outcomes with Clavel, doesn't mean that you should use him. If you're not sure, take some more time and continue researching. Having been there, I don't envy your having to make the decision that you're facing.

Good luck, Jeff