I put on M6 vs Prodisc Lumbar

[Dingie]

Hi,
I am in beginning stages of decision making. My US MD is appealing my ins to try for a Prodisc for L4-L5. while I would prfer to save $$ and stay in the US, I also want the best option.

I have corresponded with Dr. Boeree and with Dr. Bergnaoli's associate and received opposite opinion. Dr. B said Prodisc and the M6 is simply dangerous, didn't really explain in a manner that I could understand (I am not an MD but I am a Masters prepared RN). Dr. Boeree said M6 and if I was told otherwise most likely due to financial conflict of interest.

Confused! i am also looking at Dr. Clavel but haven't corresponded yet.
Has anyone had negative reports for the M6 for lumbar ADR?

Thanks for any advice!

[Texas Toast]

Hi, I'm also just in the beginning stages of decision-making; but I've heard that the Pro-disc is just metal on metal but the M6 is a 2nd-generation disc, containing a rubbery material in the middle that aids in shock absorption, hopefully reducing the risk of new adjacent segment disease.

Hopefully, others can add more.

[Dingie]

Thanks texas toast Dr. Boeree in the UK feels that in general the M6 is his first choice for lumbar although individual needs dictate his choice always.

I am in the US so my choices here are limited and my MD here only uses rhe Prodisc L which maybe the best choice. It just makes me unsure when he doesn 't have the ability to consider any other disc due to our FDA regulations.

Also I have seen severalosts avout nickel allergies and the prodisc. I am hoghly allergic and when I asked the German MD was told not a problem. I haben't talked with my US MD about it yet because I didn't know to ask the question but I will mext week. This forum is a great place to get answers but also makes you think of things too.

Good luck on yours are you planning on US or overseas?

[Slackwater]

Originally Posted by Dingie

Dr. Boeree in the UK feels that in general the M6 is his first choice for lumbar although individual needs dictate his choice always.

Issue. I am hoghly allergic and when I asked the German MD was told not a problem.

Ans. Search adrsupport.org for "metal allergy". It may be worth the testing if you are "highly allergic" to other items.

[laid up doc]

prodisc has traces of nickel, period. chromium is one of the more allergenic metals out there. anyone who tells you otherwise is feeding you crap. ask any surgeon who has no benefit from you getting a prodisc if they want chromium in their body....

not trying to badmouth the device, but i think you're being misled.

iirc, Bertagnoli has significant financial ties to prodisc.

i would press him to see why he says M6 is "dangerous"... device, hospital, or surgeon related? seems an awful lot of people do really well w/ an M6. plenty of people do well w/ a prodisc as well, but none of us has exactly the same situation. none of us knows how a given device will do 30 yrs down the road... i'm very happy w/ my decision so far.

i would tread very carefully if you have metal allergy concerns... i believe katie and i have both posted a bit on this topic, as well as a few others. one gal on here is having to get her ADR removed b/c of metal problems...

[Vicki_in_Florida]

What you're about to learn is the "business" of medical doctors.
US doctors are going to sell you on the device that they can use, so they won't talk highly of the M6 because they can't use it, and don't want you to leave the country and take your money with you. They make money on surgery.
You have to be your own advocate. Read, learn, talk to as many doctors as you can (not just US docs).
One thing that always stands out to me....
Most of the doctors outside of the US prefer not to use the Prodisc.
Dr. B has financial interest in Prodisc so we know his motives.
All of the docs I contacted said they have no financial ties to any company and can use any disc they prefer. So, why then do they pass on using a Prodisc?
America is behind because the FDA takes way too long to approve a device.
If the M6 was available in America, which disc would they choose?
I guess we can't say because it's not available to the US, even though it's made here.
How sad.

What I've learned is that doctors look at you like a business client.
We want them to care about us, and tell us honestly what is the best thing to do.
This just doesn't happen too often. You have to decide for yourself, what you think is best for you.

Read the surgical outcome section of this site.
Actions speak louder than words.
Pay attention to people who haven't had great outcomes and how the doctor treats them AFTER the surgery. It makes me angry when I read comments like "learn to live with the pain" and "suck it up". Any doctor who would make this kind of a comment has never had our back pain!!
I pushed two children out and I would take that any day over the chronic back pain.
We are all having surgery in hopes of alleviating this pain and getting our lives back.

Read, read, ask questions and listen to your gut.

[laid up doc]

vicki has given you some good advice.

i will reiterate too, that if you have nickel allergies, do NOT get a disc with ANY nickel.

the issue of metal allergies and spine implants is VERY poorly understood, but what IS known is that getting a lumbar disc removed is a complicated and potentially life-threatening operation.

i just went through the same thing, see my signature - have more "contacts" and had more input than most, but had to make all of the tough calls on my own b/c no one in the US knows much about the M6 (possibly excepting a doc or 2 at TBI?).

best of luck to you. i am finally seeing the light and i cannot describe how joyous it is to not have your old pain anymore. still too soon to know if i'll have residual problems, but so far i have no major complaints!!

[Texas Toast]

Originally Posted by Dingie

Good luck on yours are you planning on US or overseas?

I would love to go overseas b/c I think the M6 (or the Freedom Disc if available) is a superior device. Funding will be an issue.

I seem to have Sacroilliac (S.I.) Joint involvement. I need further diagnosis; plan to call in the a.m. to try to make an appt. with a spine specialist. I also have a bellybutton hernia, probably need surgery on both knees (undiagnosed), and have snapping hips.

I don't know if the surgeons would want to fuse the S.I. joint and add ADRs in the same operation. Another possibility is that I would take care of the knees, hernia, and have the S.I. joint fused and try to wait 'til a 2nd generation disc like the M6 makes it stateside.

If I do need ADR(s) immediately, I hope that I can make arrangements to go abroad. I wonder if/when the M6 or Freedom Disc will be approved in India. Surgery there is about 10-15% of what it is here. India has some 1st rate private hospitals, like Apollo Hospitals.

THE MAIN THING for me right now is further diagnosis and tests.

[Dingie]

Thanks to everyone for your kind replies and needed advice I saw my US orthopedic surgeon who is starting a prodisc 2 level study soon and I think had me listed for the company as a patient "ready to go". I am not an MD but as an RN I am aware of the business side of things. It is what is it is, I have known for 30 years Marcus Welby is only an actor

I asked about the nickel allergy and was immediately told to go to my allergist and have blood work. He didn't know anything about any other disc other than the Charite which as you know is off the market in the US. I asked his thoughts about going overseas...he was reticent but did say he had 2 patients who went to the "black forest" and were doing well. I asked if he would follow me after if I went elsewhere and he said he would (I sort of "know" him not a friend really just live in the neighborhood know his wife and have played tennis). I don't know if that contributed or if he is just a nice guy

He sent me to pain management, very reluctantly, preferreing I just tough out any discomfort over the next few months to a year.....

So, I am planning tentatively on Dr. Clavel, we have corresponded in Barcelona. I am waiting for insurance to see if they will cover the prodisc. I am hoping if they will it will give me a better appeal for the M6...they do cover 60% out of the country for "covered procedures" seems worth the wait.

In the meantime I continue to read and research, work on weight loss and improving fitness, pilates, elliptigo, nutritionist...I am training for this as I used to train for my triathlon

Any one able to run, play tennis, compete after lumbar ADR?

Thanks again, I am sure I will have more questions to pester you with.

Congratulations Vicki I am glad everything went well

[Vicki_in_Florida]

Thanks

Also, maybe I have a different outlook than others but when it comes to
Running, tennis, skiing, horseback riding, etc...
Most of these activities are hard on your real discs.
These are "artificial" replacements.
I wanted to get rid of the pain but also would like this disc to never wear out.
I'm not going to push and see what I should and should not have done.
What are the consequences? We don't know yet.
I'm grateful just to sit, turn over in bed, sit through a movie, you know what I'm saying?
The things we take for granted aren't appreciated until they are taken away.
Look at Tiger Woods (personal issues aside).
Had those knees worked on. Are they like new?
Is he golfing just as well as he did with healthy knees?
I think sometimes we may need to remind ourselves that these discs are
artificial. I don't think doctors know how hard we should push them.
We are kinda the guinea pigs.
Go slow. Common sense. If an activity is going to be harsh on your new disc or discs,
is it worth the risk? I guess this is where we all differ from each other.
Free will. Its all about choices and consequences.