Stem cells

[Rosie]

Finally I can up-date my situation on the forum after 2 1/2 years.

I have been confirmed by my surgeons with a partial damage to my L4 nerve and this has happened during the surgery from the ADR and not from the fusion. Doctors are saying that stem cells could be a solution but not in the near future though. I have come across a private clinic in Germany (Cologne) which performs the procedure and they say that this is possible but at Gold price!
The surgeon says for now the only solution he can offer is "nerve stimulator" and after checking into it I found some horror stories. While others have said that this is their life saving option.

The damage has occurred while the surgery was performed due to the force of the surgical clips/instruments gone deeper. This is very unusual, should have not happened as "anterior" approach normally does not go profound...
Anyway, my luck!

Has anyone out there with any knowledge on stem cells?? Would like to have ideas/opinions. I understand this is a controversial issue at this point in time.

Would love to hear from you.

[Terry]

Wow! I'm sorry to hear this Rosie. Is there any other treatment options available? Is it a nerve that could be taken care of with nerve ablation? It would seem if they could deaden the nerve without causing loss of movement anywhere that this may be a better treatment option.

Are you on Lyrica presently?

What can we, as a community, do to support you in this process?

Terry Newton

[Rosie]

Thank you Terry, no they can't do a nerve ablation as this is a "motor nerve". Laura, I checked with Dr. Yueng/Dr. Hoogland and unfortunately "nothing" is available at their clinics under Endoscopy.

I was on Lyrica more than 2 months after the epidural injection (4x75mg) but had to switch back to Gaba as my anxiety problems seems to be better controlled with Gaba along with Tramadol.

The only thing I don't know is how much time is this epidural effect last? Few months?? This type of pain has been triggered since the injection. I have to see another specialist (spine surgeon in Oct) who has done lots of nerve stimulator and go from there. The surgeon who discovered my problem has not done any of them and said his colleague has NOT done any of the ADR patients as yet. I will be his 1st.
Meanwhile, I read about this stem cells and if anyone out there has any input would be helpful.

If I can help anyone going for surgery to please discuss this "issue" with their surgeons and not go through what I am going though I repeat I am a "rare case".

When I was reading the progress of others on the forum, my thoughts were that something was wrong with me, I am NOT doing the right exercises or NOT getting the right therapists or the right medications etc...Waited 2 yrs till the original surgeon tried facet blocs, then surgeon no2 was about to try Cryotherapy then did the SI injections etc....till the problem root was found after 6 months!

Terry, the support on this forum is great as we all listen to each other and share any knowledge that we may have.

Thank you guys for all your support.

[Toebin]

Gosh Rosie I'm sorry to read about this. And I understand so much about reading and knowing something isn't right with you, your pain just isn't fitting in with what other people describe.

The nerve stim they are talking about... would that be an implanted nerve stimulator? If so, like you I've read wonderful things about it and also that is did not help much. I think it's really an individual response.

Hopefully someone that has experience with this will post.

Stem cells appear to hold many wonderful things for us spine patients in the future, but the only stem cell work I've read of being done right now is with bone healing. Nothing to do with nerve injury. They have used a paste with stem cells to facilitate healing of broken bones, and it's helped.

You appear to have more info than I if you found a clinic that is already doing work in that area.

I hope you get some relief soon !!

[johnb]

Rosie,

I have a question. How was the damage to your nerve root diagnosed? I'm having problems post op and am wondering if your answer will help with my course of action regarding diagnosing my issues. Also, what symptoms do you have as a result of the nerve damage? I'm sorry that you are going through this. I've had some of the most extreme nerve pain ever that started around 6 weeks post surgery. It comes on with walking and subsides when I lie down.

John

[Harrison]

I have been confirmed by my surgeons with a partial damage to my L4 nerve and this has happened during the surgery from the ADR and not from the fusion.

Rosie, I suppose this is a mixed blessing: nice detective work...leading to your next challenge! May I ask how your surgeons confirmed this? How was the root problem found after six months? This kind of unusual diagnostic is not commonly observed - at least in this community.

Did the docs quantify the extent of damage? Make any other recommendations, e.g. B-12? How much scar tissue is effecting that area, or causing a problem? In Canada, is there such thing as a neurologist that also provides advice in areas of alternative care to address some of these questions?

Sorry to reply with more questions than answers! BTW: are you still doing serrapeptase?

[Rosie]

John, the damage that the surgeon saw was the CT dated Nov 06, where a tiny scar sitting close to my L4 root nerve. Then upon the examination (took a good 45 minutes) after 4 wks of SI injections (in May) the suspicion of muscle/ligament damage, he concluded (in June) that it's definitely L4 nerve due to the force of the clips. What he proposed then was an epidural to the root of L4. At the time he was not sure about L5. He said "let's try L4 and if no relief then L5.
The 1st wk after the injection, the pain was unbearable (felt like bruising pain) and this is where he confirmed that the injection has triggered the nerve (irritated).
I took a complete rest to see how things are improving for 2 months as per the surgeon's advice. As time went by, the pain increased (going down my thigh/knees/sole). Stabbing pain following the L4 (left side) dermatome, I spoke to him on Thursday and he said: "that this is exactly what I had suspected from the beginning".

Now let me tell you how it all started. 4 wks post-op, I experienced excruciating pain -extreme burning on my left sole (mid sole towards the front). The surgeon said to go on Gaba from 1200mg/day to 2800mg/day and try to walk walk and walk (2 to 3 hrs/day). When I was trying to wean off meds on my 1st yr, my left side from back to front -parallel to the spine- was hurting. I repeatedly told him about this problem and he said this could be scar tissue and I have to try to be as active as possible. A good 2 yrs went by but could not come off medications totally. It was like a roller coaster. Walking was fine but to a max of 30' and pain would start. laying down was helpful. Lately can't even do that as it hurts constantly. It takes few hours b/4 getting my pain down in order to sleep. Few times I had a nerve attack during my sleep. Extreme nerve pain like fire on both legs which gets me in a nervous situation.

Rich, according to the surgeon any attempts at this point would be "waste of money". Scar tissue is NOT around the nerve. It's INSIDE. Not totally but partially. If it was total damage then I would have no pain just numbness. This means it's ONLY partial. He can't say by how much. Talking about alternative, only stem cells could be a potential solution (cure) in the future. This is where he said that the nerve stimulator could be a temporary solution (not cure) till something comes up and we could always remove it. Then I would not require medications on a daily basis. Not like a pace maker in the heart.

Serrapeptase? It did help with my stomach flattening (lost 5 lbs). I suspect that I did have scar tissue in the frontal area and this could explain the increase in my pain may be?? It could be the scar disappearing would have brought the actual pain from L4?? I have no explanation. Right now, I have stopped everything. I took it for 2 months.
When I told the surgeon, he said that the enzymes did not help the pain, so it is the nerve damage and not the scar formed around the surgical site.

Sorry guys, it's a long posting but it's better to describe you my complete journey till now.

[Rosie]

Someone mentioned to me that they saw something in the news few days ago about China offering stem cells treatments. Has anyone on the forum have this info??

[talon]

Rosie,

Sorry to hear about your problem.

You can try Volteran Gel (diclofenac sodium)this may help with some of the inflamation and the pains. You can get it in the US, it is not avaialable in Canada yet.

[Rosie]

How are you doing, Raj? Any news about your surgery??