m6-L questions

[Icanraceit]

Hey guys. I have posted a couple threads in regards to my situation and a lot of people recommend the m6 and overseas surgery vs pro disc U.S. Surgery. I need a l5 s1 ADR and am looking for recommendations. So please feel free to tell me about your doctor and why I should consider them. Thanks and god bless!!!

[JeffR]

Since you consolidated I am going to paste my answer from the other thread here:

If you are looking outside the U.S. Dr. Pablo Clavel (Medical tourism in Spain and spine surgery - Barcelona Spine Center (http://www.bcn-sc.com/)) is a good choice, some reasons for recommending him:

1. He did my surgery :P which I consider a success thus far (3 levels 8 weeks in)
2. Overall reputation for quality work on this board (search the forums)
3. He has an excellent bedside manner and exhudes confidence, but not arrogance
4. The value at his clinic hits the sweet spot, cheaper than Germany but much higher quality than India or the like
5. The overall package and the people on his team - top notch, relatively easy to get a hold of and deal with
6. Barcelona - the city is awesome, arrive early
7. The number of procedures he has done, he has implanted well over a 1000 M6s and has done numerous multi-levels

I could go on but I would highly recommend you comb the forums to read patient stories, this is the best way to get a feel for his quality and what to expect. Also arrange a phone consult with him.

Good Luck,

-Jeff

[jss]

Matt,

Here's my list. It comes from a combination of personal experience, reading posts on this site, and from weeks of research I did preparing my last insurance appeal.

- Pablo Clavel, Barcelona, Spain - Aside from the fact that his patients gush all over him on the internet, on Nov 25, 2009 he gave me my life back with a two level M6-C.
- Luiz Pimenta, Sao Paulo, Brazil - He is a world renowned spine research surgeon that has decades of clinical experience and is profusely cited by his peers. The few patients I've conversed with love him to death and I've never read of a bad outcome under his scalpel. Though his practice is in Brazil, he is known to perform surgeries in San Diego.
- Christopher Dare, Hampshire, England - While there have been only two of his patients on this site (both would go to him again), he was the understudy of the late Nick Boeree. We know not a lot about Mr Dare, but as the understudy of the most highly spoken of spine surgeon to which I've had any exposure, Mr Dare warrants consideration.
- Jack Zigler, Plano, TX - A world renowned and extensively published spine researcher that is profusely cited by his peers. He is the only ProDisc surgeon of which I've not read of producing a bad surgical outcome. Because of his experience in the ProDisc FDA IDE trials and his former investment dealings with Synthes, he's possibly the most capable ProDisc surgeon in the New World, if not the entire planet.
- Willem Zeegers, Bonn, Germany - A world renowned spine surgeon with about 25 years of experience in ADR. His patients love him and it is very unusual to find a bad surgical outcome at his hands. On the down side ... he is a paid representative of LDR, so you're only going to get one of their products.

I don't doubt there are a great many ADR surgeons as good as these gentlemen, but these are the ones that I've observed that seem to reliably and routinely turn out a steady stream of excellent outcomes.

Good luck, Jeff

[Mike25207]

I am also researching doctors so this thread is very helpful. Seems like M6 is the way to go for ADRs and Clavel is the best choice. That said, does anyone know who Ritter-Lang is? Is he a good option?

[JeffR]

Hey Mike - I used to live in spring Texas- loved that rodeo bar you've got in the mall there in Katy. :)

Anyways I would say ritter-lang is well known in this board and I would say he is more notorious than well regarded. If I had the choice between him and clavel (and I did :P) I would go with clavel. Again search the forums for info on sternum and ritter-lang to get more info.

Jeff

[Icanraceit]

I spoke to an associate with Ritter Lang last night. I got a number from betterdiscreplacement.com and spoke with a very nice gentle man. He was very informative but as the website said I could choose Clavel or Ritter Lang. When I spoke of Clavel he kept redirecting the conversation to Ritter Lang and was told Clavel was more of a cervical doctor because he was a neurologist and not orthopedic. Again the man I spoke to was wonderful but I felt he was defiantly biased. That said I haven't spoken to anyone overseas but based on what I read Pablo Clavel is the direction I am leaning. I have watched several YouTube videos of him and read a ton of reviews and I have yet to find a unsatisfied customer. I look forward to hearing more about your doctors and experiences. Thanks and may you day be pain free. GOD BLESS!!

[JeffR]

I spoke to an associate with Ritter Lang last night. I got a number from betterdiscreplacement.com and spoke with a very nice gentle man. He was very informative but as the website said I could choose Clavel or Ritter Lang. When I spoke of Clavel he kept redirecting the conversation to Ritter Lang and was told Clavel was more of a cervical doctor because he was a neurologist and not orthopedic. Again the man I spoke to was wonderful but I felt he was defiantly biased. That said I haven't spoken to anyone overseas but based on what I read Pablo Clavel is the direction I am leaning. I have watched several YouTube videos of him and read a ton of reviews and I have yet to find a unsatisfied customer. I look forward to hearing more about your doctors and experiences. Thanks and may you day be pain free. GOD BLESS!!
I think Clavel is slowly going his own way away from Enande (the people who run betterdiscreplacement.com) and is getting a lot of referrals directly to his own site which can be found here: Medical tourism in Spain and spine surgery - Barcelona Spine Center (http://www.bcn-sc.com/) and this is probably why they push Ritter-Lang - they even 'accidentally' had RL review my MRIs rather than Clavel at first. My very strong opinion is DO NOT go through Enande - their people are terrible - talk directly with Clavel's staff through his website. His assistant Yolanda is great, the contact info goes right to her it can be found here: Contact & Arrangement Process | Bcn Spine Center (http://www.bcn-sc.com/phone-and-contact-info/contact.aspx)

Good Luck,

-Jeff

[JeffR]

I think Clavel is slowly going his own way away from Enande (the people who run betterdiscreplacement.com) and is getting a lot of referrals directly to his own site which can be found here: Medical tourism in Spain and spine surgery - Barcelona Spine Center (http://www.bcn-sc.com/) and this is probably why they push Ritter-Lang - they even 'accidentally' had RL review my MRIs rather than Clavel at first. My very strong opinion is DO NOT go through Enande - their people are terrible - talk directly with Clavel's staff through his website. His assistant Yolanda is great, the contact info goes right to her it can be found here: Contact & Arrangement Process | Bcn Spine Center (http://www.bcn-sc.com/phone-and-contact-info/contact.aspx)

Good Luck,

-Jeff
Also if you DON'T go through Enande you are able to potentially negotiate your price with Clavel, with Enande you are stuck, FYI.

[M.Frost]

Hey guys. I have posted a couple threads in regards to my situation and a lot of people recommend the m6 and overseas surgery vs pro disc U.S. Surgery. I need a l5 s1 ADR and am looking for recommendations. So please feel free to tell me about your doctor and why I should consider them. Thanks and god bless!!!

I really feel for you with regard to finding a surgeon. All of us who have had successful out comes will have nothing but pure gratitude for our surgeon. I'm sure the particular replacement disc will contribute hugely to the successful out come of the operation. Having said that without the skill of the surgeon whatever the disc there could be problems. I guess I'm saying right disc right surgeon.

I was offered the M6L disc replacement for L5S1 and it took me a little over a year to finally come to the decision to have the operation purely because I was in so much pain the thought of having the operation and it not be a success was almost a risk I didn't want to take (its hard to explain!!) I did do a fair bit of research on the M6 and I quickly came to the decision that it was the best disc on offer and also there was nothing likely to supersede it in the near future, as for the surgeon it honestly never occurred to me to look into others, to me he was so approachable and down to earth it really was instant trust, I had two spinal epidurals with him before I made the decision to have the op which only confirmed my trust in him. He had the ability to make me laugh when I felt like crying. He showed genuine compassion and passion from the start. He's simply a genuinely down to earth guy.

I do hope I haven't woffeled on to much!! But I really think if you can personally speak to the surgeons you will know right away which one is right for you.

Oh and my surgeon was Mr Chris Dare ( known as Lord Dare in my house) working in Southampton UK
Please do let me know if I can be of any more help
Mia

[Icanraceit]

Thanks so much for all of your input. I will definitely consider Dr.dare as well. Iam hoping to find the best surgeon soon. All of the pain, stress, and concern for failure is really starting to take a toll on me. I know what you are saying when you weren't sure if you wanted the surgery when thinking it could be worse afterwards.
It is so baffling the wide array of different opinions doctors have. I went to see Dr. Musante today and he told me that he has done well over two hundred ADRs and spoke of all of the disc manufacturers and was even involved in some early m6 trials a few years ago. He said that he thought that with what was on the market in the states I should have a fusion at L5S1 and if there were any problems with adjacent discs he could then replace it with a more advanced disc if one was available. I asked him what he thought of the m6 and he said he loved it. Then proceeded to tell me it was still new and he would still do the anterior approach fusion. He also said that the new ALIF was much more advanced and that adjacent disc degeneration was a theory. Everything he said made great sense and he was actually very knowledgable. I just don't think I am prepared to basically write in my next surgery when the adjacent disc fails. Oh plus as he stood up he said that he had spent a lot of time with us and he had to run. Oh and I scheduled two time slots as to not effect others appointments and he was an hour late seeing us. I really hope the end of all of this crazy BS is almost over. My family and business is beginning to show signs of wear:-(.

I hope the pain subsides for everyone soon and may God Bless you all.

[JeffR]

Oh plus as he stood up he said that he had spent a lot of time with us and he had to run. Oh and I scheduled two time slots as to not effect others appointments and he was an hour late seeing us.
I would never let a doctor I didn't trust cut me open, it just isn't worth the stress, nor would I go with a doctor that treated me that way - there are better options out there...

[Icanraceit]

Jeffr
You are exactly right, I am just tired of the #%& holes acting like I am a total POS and he knows what is best no matter the circumstance. The best part was when I asked him about the M6 he said it was great and he loved it. When I told him I was considering going to Europe to have it installed he started waffling saying "well it is new and who knows if it will stay together and they haven't been out long enough to know if it was truly a successful product, plus He was saying that getting products approved over in europe was easy and basically all one had to prove is that it wasn't dangerous to ones health." I think he was trying to tell me that the FDA had a much better system in place to ensure the products were safe and effective as in Europe. the are only safe and not necessarily productive. Oh my goodness I'm losing my mind?!?!?!? I can't stand this crap much longer. I am beginning to be a cranky old man at 32 YOA. Something's got to give. Thanks and God Bless!!

Sorry for the rant. :l

[JeffR]

No worries we've all been there.

One thing though - it is true that the FDA testing is more stringent than European testing to get approval for implantation, however in some ways this is a BAD thing in that it takes soo much money and time that good products like the M6 just can't get approved (yet).

I would look at the 10,000+ M6s installed as a pretty good sample set though, you basically have to scour to get a bad result and it is always surgical error, there is no evidence of device failure at this point.

[JEVE19]

If I need another ADR, it will be with Dr. Dare.
I have exchanged several emails with him and feel pretty confident that he would be fine for me. He has done many surgeries, he just doesn't have alot of his patients posting on this forum. He kinda gets talked about like he's a newbie, but he's not. He doesn't have as much experience as Nick Boeree did, but he didn't graduate last week either.
I found him very knowledgeable, and answered all my questions pretty much the same way Nick did. Dr. Dare has my vote if I need another ADR.

[Icanraceit]

If I need another ADR, it will be with Dr. Dare.
I have exchanged several emails with him and feel pretty confident that he would be fine for me. He has done many surgeries, he just doesn't have alot of his patients posting on this forum. He kinda gets talked about like he's a newbie, but he's not. He doesn't have as much experience as Nick Boeree did, but he didn't graduate last week either.
I found him very knowledgeable, and answered all my questions pretty much the same way Nick did. Dr. Dare has my vote if I need another ADR.

Vicki,
Thanks for the input. I will be reaching out to him tomorrow as well as heading to my buddy/chiropractors office to get some requested X-rays taken to fulfill the request of clavels office. He was actually my buddy before my chiro. Fitting huh. Do you have any contact info or web address for Dr Dare?? Thanks again and hopefully you will never have to go through the process of an ADR again. I will be thanking god tonight for all of my new companions here at ADR Support in my evening prayers tonight. Thanks again to all and GOD BLESS!!!

[JEVE19]

Contact Dr. Dare's PA:
karen.hammond@nuffieldhealth.com
Obviously, her name is Karen Hammond.

[Icanraceit]

Thanks Vicki

God Bless!

[Lillyth]

Since you consolidated I am going to paste my answer from the other thread here:

If you are looking outside the U.S. Dr. Pablo Clavel (Medical tourism in Spain and spine surgery - Barcelona Spine Center (http://www.bcn-sc.com/)) is a good choice, some reasons for recommending him:

1. He did my surgery :P which I consider a success thus far (3 levels 8 weeks in)
2. Overall reputation for quality work on this board (search the forums)
3. He has an excellent bedside manner and exhudes confidence, but not arrogance
4. The value at his clinic hits the sweet spot, cheaper than Germany but much higher quality than India or the like
5. The overall package and the people on his team - top notch, relatively easy to get a hold of and deal with
6. Barcelona - the city is awesome, arrive early
7. The number of procedures he has done, he has implanted well over a 1000 M6s and has done numerous multi-levels

I could go on but I would highly recommend you comb the forums to read patient stories, this is the best way to get a feel for his quality and what to expect. Also arrange a phone consult with him.

Good Luck,

-Jeff

He has done over 500 multi-levels.

[Lillyth]

Matt,

- Christopher Dare, Hampshire, England - While there have been only two of his patients on this site (both would go to him again), he was the understudy of the late Nick Boeree. We know not a lot about Mr Dare, but as the understudy of the most highly spoken of spine surgeon to which I've had any exposure, Mr Dare warrants consideration.


I was very impressed with my interaction with him. I didn't actually speak to him, but I did like our emails back and forth, and I loved that he wanted to know my symptoms because he was "treating a person, not films".:beer:

[Lillyth]

No worries we've all been there.

One thing though - it is true that the FDA testing is more stringent than European testing to get approval for implantation, however in some ways this is a BAD thing in that it takes soo much money and time that good products like the M6 just can't get approved (yet).

I would look at the 10,000+ M6s installed as a pretty good sample set though, you basically have to scour to get a bad result and it is always surgical error, there is no evidence of device failure at this point.

That is only part of it. Prodisc immediately sues for patent infringement any time a new disc tries to come into the US!

[JeffR]

That is only part of it. Prodisc immediately sues for patent infringement any time a new disc tries to come into the US!
Oh I know prodisc's litigation history - that company and the doctors who are part of it are disgrace in that regard IMO. :)

[Lillyth]

Oh I know prodisc's litigation history - that company and the doctors who are part of it are disgrace in that regard IMO. :)

A disgrace? I would have gone with "The pinnacle of greed and evil personified" myself.:D

[M.Frost]

Matt
Sorry for the delay in getting back to its the time zone. I'm sure you'll understand that no two surgical outcomes will be the same, this is how it was for me. Awful constant low back pain which pain killers never really touched, I found it impossible to find a position that was comfortable, I had numbness down the side and across the top of my foot on my left leg, but no real pain with it but some times when lying down and trying to move my legs it did give me extra pain in the lower back.
When I came around after the anaesthetic I understand that I would have had a lot of pain meds in my system but there really was no pain in my back the only pain I ever felt was from the tummy around the incision,the following morning the physiotherapist came in to get me up and about and I really panicked thinking this is going to hurt I very nearly refused!! But one I'd come round to the idea and slowly got out of bed I was still pain free, so for me it was the first time getting out of bed without a great deal of pain it was unbelievable. I did take it easy for a couple of weeks then started physio and hydrotherapy once a week doing alternating ones each week for a month or so, although I never felt it necessary as I had no pain but understood that the muscles need a little help to settle down. I'm just over a on on still totally pain free never even the odd twinge. Honestly my only regret is not having the operation when Mr Dare first suggested it to me. Best wishes to you Matt and I really hope your eventual out come mirrors mine.

[Icanraceit]

Thanks for your story and your kind hopes for me, I am glad to hear that yours was a complete success!! Sounds very similar to my situation..

Turns out scheduling the facet injections was the right thing to do. I had my doctor request the injection info from my pain doctor and turns out that it wasn't documented that the facet blocks had been done. It said I had some SI injections?? she did indicate that she thought that when she had me under light sedation she remembered doing them but wasn't 100% sure.. MIND BLOWING!!! Needless to say she is not doing the injections on Wednesday.

Oh one question is a medial branch block the same thing that every on refers to when speaking of facet injections used to diagnose facet pain. I was told that I am getting a medial branch block and from what I read one is an injection into the nerve and one is an injection into the joint. Please advice me what injection I need and the proper name to diagnose facet pain.problems.

Also is facet problems visible on a MRI??

My wife has finally agreed that the M6L is the right thing for me and now we need to finish gathering all the info and make a decision on when and where unless we find that the facets are causing the pain..Lets hope not.

Thanks again and God Bless!!

[JeffR]

Can't help with injection name - they just called it facet injections for me. :/

Yes facet problems show up on an MRI. Xrays will also identify some issues iirc.

[johnwhof]

Hi, I just had a 3 level ADR done, L3-L4, L4-L5, L5-S1,3 months ago, at ONZ in Germany, and I am feeling awesome. My surgeon, Dr. Thomas Bierstedt, is the most down to earth person ever. He, as well, has a very good reputation, and has shown great results.

[johnwhof]

Sorry, this is the wrong thread

[Stonewall_Boris]

I had a 3 level ADR with Dr. Bierstedt in December and would definitely recommend him. The hospital in Hattigen was great, the doctors and nurses are first class. The post op care at Medicos really helped to get me back on my feet.

[Boxer78]

Stonewall tell us more about your diagnosis and recovery? I am considering Bierstedt

[Stonewall_Boris]

Press Malte to tell you exactly where you need the operation. I assume you sent them the MRI'S. What slide, what image makes them think this. They are good. Dr. Bierstedt is probably one of the best neurosurgeons in the world. The hospital in Hattgen knows what they are doing. The post op hospital Medicos will get you back on your feet.

[Boxer78]

Thx man. I have sent to Bierstedt and they are proposing an m6 at L5 S1 but my MRI shows herniation at 4-5 as well but Bierstedt says disc looks good so idk. Images going to more docs this week. What are your capabilities at this point?

[Stonewall_Boris]

I'm starting back to work on Tuesday.:clap:
You won't go wrong with Dr. Bierstedt. I don't know about others, but the post op care at Medicos is great. The hospital in Hattegen is really good, the people, the nurses and the doctors. If you want, if you get your email to me, I can send you the pictures I took of the hospital and Medicos.

[Boxer78]

Yea man that would be awesome it's rvsfitnesstrainer@yahoo.com
So tell us more! What can you do physically? Can u run jump do pushups etc can u bend over can you sit? Thx again

[TPatti]

If you don't mind I'd be interested as well, toddpatti@me.com
Yea man that would be awesome it's rvsfitnesstrainer@yahoo.com
So tell us more! What can you do physically? Can u run jump do pushups etc can u bend over can you sit? Thx again

[jss]

Boris,

That is great news! You can also post pictures that you don't mind the whole world seeing on this site. Simply upload your image to one of the myriad of shared file servers, such as 4shared.com or photobucket.com, then select this icon above, http://www.adrsupport.org/forums/adr_images/editor/insertimage.gif, and paste the URL of your photo. Many people troll these forums and never post. Your pictures might provide very valuable information to many.

Jeff

[TPatti]

I'm starting back to work on Tuesday.:clap:
You won't go wrong with Dr. Bierstedt. I don't know about others, but the post op care at Medicos is great. The hospital in Hattegen is really good, the people, the nurses and the doctors. If you want, if you get your email to me, I can send you the pictures I took of the hospital and Medicos.

Hope you had a good first day back at work!