Similar symptoms like mine DDD L3 L4
 

Hi all, i have question for you. I was wondering if anyone here have symptoms like i do. So my spine looks ok exept i have bad L3 L4 disc. I see most of you have trouble sitting but for me it gives me relief. My biggest pain provoke is when im in static position, walking and standing. When i walk for longer i get imidiate relief when bending forward. Same when im standing. So, as long my spine is bend, ex. when sitting bend, or lying bend is ok(when i lay on my back with legs straight i have pain). Is there anyone that have problem like me, and have relief when bending spine?
P.S. I have big pain and almost cant do that, is when im trying to bend backwards. Thank you all :-)

Hi Perepere,

It makes sense that your symptoms are different, since your bad disc is higher up. For me, L3/L4 was fine, so standing was possible to some extent. Sitting was impossible for me. The lower discs make sitting difficult. Since your L4/L5 and L5/S1 are ok, that very well can explain how sitting is not a problem for you.

The bending thing makes complete sense too. For me, in the beginning, when I could sit a little bit, there was a big difference in what type of chair I sat in. The key idea was: in various sitting positions, your tailbone and sacrum bends slightly different, which affects pain.
Likewise, for you, bending while standing affects the positioning of your L3/L4 disc which makes your bulge/tears touch more or less on the nerves.

Having only L3/L4 bad is indeed more rare. Is there possibly some special sport or work you do that could have contributed to this?

Pain in static position is common for DDD regardless of disc. I would bet that some form of traction or hanging can temporarily give you pain relief, am I correct?

I did have traction table but that only make pain worse. Yeah i dont see here so offten people with only L3 L4, so maybe thats why i am having different symptoms. I dont have leg pain, maybe sometimes but i have big back pain. I didnt have any sports or work,i developed this in high scool. It cames from nowhere, and they say it is genetic thing...i was told by several adr doctors that i am adr candidate for L3 L4 level.

Facet problem maybe?...
 

Hi there!
Disc degeneration is very common and for the most part it doesn't cause any major disfunction or pain other than the "normal" aches and pains with that come with age. That being said, there's the lucky ones like us that this condition can seriously debilitate us and sometimes make us bedridden.

Now, based on the i formation you have provided it's hard to know where the pain is coming from. What does your MRI report say? Usually, if you had a bulging or herniated disc at the lumbar level, bending forward would put pressure on the nerve roots and it would send you screaming (at least it does for me and for many others). On the other hand, a facet problem is common to cause pain and discomfort with backward bends and the pain is often alleviated by forward bending.

I am not saying your problems aren't coming from your disc but before looking into major surgery, make sure you know where your pain is coming from. Facet pain are often treated without surgery. For many RFA works very well for their facet joint pain. Review your MRI report, talk to multiple doctors, do extensive research online, and make the most educated decision you can make. In the end if you do need ADR, at least you will know you didn't pull the trigger too early.

I would advice to have an experienced, and knowledgeable (sometimes they are hard to find) physical therapist that can help you identify further where the pain is coming from. Discograms can be false positives and doctors don't take nearly enough time doing a physical exam the right way (like they should). In my case for example, my PT would have me move in different ways and would put pressure in different areas of my spine to see if the pain was reproduced. He concluded that my pain is mainly coming from my discs, but I also have some pain coming from my facets at an upper level. After receiving my MRI report, my PT was right on the money. I have mild facet problems at an upper level that causes some discomfort when I bend my body back.

Feel free to reach anyone here in these forums, they are all great people and if you are new to this, they may be able to point you in the right direction. Take care and good luck!

Could be some central stenosis also

I dont have stenosis and facet problem. I get tested that. I have pure disc pain which was confirmed with discography. I have big annular tear in that disc. I dont have nerve root compresion, so only bad back pain...

How does your mri look? Just curious

Pere,

Please see:

https://www.adrsupport.org/forums/sh...ad.php?t=11053

Let me know if you need help. :wiggle:

This is my MRI. I hope you can view it.

That disc is really degenerated compared to the other discs. It is very interesting, why that particular disc only. If I were you, I would try to get many independent opinions from different experienced surgeons. You need to show all MRI images to the surgeons. The lateral view is nice for a general overview, but it is from the horizontal slices, where you get the detailed information about the tear. The fact that only the one disc is so extreme may actually be a good thing. It is easier to fix an isolated spine problem with adr.

I find it peculiar too that traction creates pain for you. You may want to mention this to the surgeons. If they truly underatand the diagnosis, then they should be able to say why.

The height of l5 s1 is decreased a bit too imo, but it's still well hydrated, which is good.

My L5 S1 is half fused and i have small disc there. I think i will not have problem there.
@Blizzaga
I actualy had discogram and that discrabe annular tear better than mri. I have quite big tear there and they found contrast leaking in the foramen. So this disc is completly dead. No wonder why i never had any relief...
I dont know why that disc, they say genetic, thats all. I didnt had any fall or trauma to the spine ever...

And you've had constant pain for 15 years? It never got better?

I've some annular tears can heal with time...Obviously yours is not one of them unfortunately.

Hi FutureRobot, how long does your annular tear heal? Mine l5s1 has been a year seem better but i still can't lift thing more than 3kg and i have flare up here and there. I am going to do a discogram but not sure will it make the tear worse after doing it. Worry and worry need help !!!!

Annular tears can take a long time. Check the Chirogeek website, he states that sometimes 2-4 years. If you can live with it, it's worth it to wait. Regennex has also reported good results with annular tears as long as the disc isn't collapsed.

Annular tear can heal in some case. For me it didnt work. I waited 10 years to finaly get diagnose, because before that they only say you are to young, and they didnt belive i have pain from only black mri disc. Thats why my neuro perform discogram to se true pain source. You should consider discogram if you are planing to have some surgery. Honestly the discography proccedure was big big pain, but on another hand i was glad that this pain was every day pain, so i knew that disc and annular tear was pain generator.
Discogram result: L3 L4 positive discogram. Annular tear grade 3 with contrast leaking in foramen. Concoordant pain 10/10.
Somewhere on the internet there is grade 1-6 for annular tear and somewhere is 1-3 so im confused. Based from Chirogeek, i have worst tear grade 3. Im confused...

10 years is a long time to be in pain. Some believers say that the tears in a degenerated disc can heal by themselves, but it is just belief, not scientific fact. It is so sad that this lie is used by some doctors to avoid surgery.

I am afraid to go to surgery because i have no nerve compresion and pain in leg. I have big pain walking and that is a thing that killes me most. I realy dont want to have leg nerve pain post op. I am actualy living with this more 10years. It silly because i see alot of people getting surgery if not better within 6months. I remember when i was 16, i go to trip to Barcelona with highscool and i could not walk trough the city because of back pain. So my disc was bad allready then. I think is the time to go to surgery because my life will pass and my back will not...

Some definitely heal. It really depends on how degenerated the disc is. A tear in a hydrated disc will, but in a black disc the chances are slim. Problem is, they never heal to the previous strength..they are always susceptible (I learned this the hard way).

But the likelihood of healing after a thermal annuloplasty isn't good. That coupled with a radiographically dehydrated (black) disk means that the odds aren't in favor for any kind of healing without some level of intervention.

Yes, I would agree.

I think if you have injured the disc into annular tear the first time, most likely it will heal. I have it almost healed since 2010 2012 then injured and healed again from mid 2012 to 2015, and i am doing good at gym. Although, i have on and off back pain during that time but it is not like what happen now. So i have injured the same spot for so many times as i think it just get weaker and weaker till it never healed up nicely again for your daily function. Well, i am not in pain as much as before but it took me a year to reach this level without doing much and just resting. I can't really BLT much, and i am constantly worry about my back being out. So it does take a ton on my life now, that is why i am looking at surgery and hope i can at least BLT without much worry, and if i over do it and there is some soreness on my back. I will take it, as i can workout my back muscle to help on it. But now, i can't even do any back exercise so guess it is time to jump into the final stage 'surgery'. God bless me !!!