Long time lurker, first time poster
 

Hi everyone,

I've been poking around the public areas of the forum for a while now, figured it was time to sign up and really start collecting info and asking questions.

My signature pretty much tells the story. Over the years I've had minor issues with my low back, but nothing serious at all. I was a very active person so I figured the injuries went with the territory. That all changed a couple of years ago, and here I am now.

I figured I could manage this condition with physio and exercise, which is probably why I remained a lurker. The pain is more annoying for me than debilitating, some days I'm ok, others I'm chewing ibuprofen like candy.

However it really hit home recently when I was asked if I wanted to hold my newborn nephew. He liked to keep moving which meant I hand to stand with him and bounce. After a minute of that my low back was stiffening up and I had to hand him off. We plan on starting a family of our own and I know that right now holding a baby while standing will be an issue, and holding him/her over my head is out of the question.

So, long story short.....time to get this fixed! I have a bunch of questions, but I'll post them in the appropriate spots.

what age are you and welcome?

Hi Chris,

Welcome.

I'm sure you'll get a lot of info here from people dealing with back problems. The one thing I find missing from your intro is your involvement with any doctors.
In your name does the wpg mean Winnipeg?

Hi pittpete. I'm 40, at least for the next couple of days.

Hey Stone,

Yes, it does mean Winnipeg. Stonewall mean the town too? The only involvement I've had with doctors so far is with my family physician who got the MRI done with me, and I've met a couple of times with a sports doctor at the Pan Am clinic who basically reviewed the results and recommended the physio. My physician has two patient that had adr, one in Germany, and the other in Brandon, Manitoba of all places. Still have to get more info on that.

I do plan on going back to Pan Am shortly to discuss disc replacement options and discovering if there's a way to get Manitoba Health to cover some of the costs if I go overseas.

Chris

Yes, Stonewall means the town, from Winnipeg, up hwy 7, turn left on hwy 67.
Do you go to the pan am pain clinic on the second floor?
I knew about the doctor in Brandon, and why I decided against going there. My pain doc had his opinion about him which was pretty much mine.

Oh sorry missed this in your post,

Your going to the pan am clinic to discuse ADR? I can already tell you what they will say. Been there, did it. I like the pan am clinics X-ray machines because they can produce a cd. I like to read the radiologist report, and laugh. "He has a prosthetic in his back.". Okay, I don't need the radiologist report, I need the X-ray on cd so I can send the image to Germany, it's a requirement for Dr. B.

I haven't talked to the doctor at Pan Am (Verity I think it's spelled) about ADR yet, but I was planning on doing it. What did they tell you? My family doctor knows of two patients in her clinic that had ADR, she was going to get feedback from them on their experiences from me.

Did you meet with the doc from Brandon? I get the feeling you didn't think highly of him. Besides, I'm sure his experience level doesn't come close to the doctors in Germany, and with our 'free' healthcare system it would take years to see him anyways.

I can't speak for my pain doc and his interaction with the Brandon doc. I never met the doc in Brandon and have no opinion on it other than that my research would suggest that I shouldn't follow up, on it. And I should not have personalized my previous comment directed at him. It was mostly directed at the current state of our health care system.
One thing I learned is that Canada has a two tiered health care system. The second tier is out of country.

"One thing I learned is that Canada has a two tiered health care system. The second tier is out of country. "
LOL Bingo! And the first one is not that good.
I've pretty much given up, I believe my GP is on the verge of trying to get our health system on board for an out of country procedure. I've tried two centres and neither will accept our gov't insurance. Our retirement is comfortable and I am reluctant to disturb it's financial foundation.

Chris,

I wish you the best of luck finding a Canadian doctor that can speak to ADR. My GP was neutral on the issue, he was certainly not up on the procedure. My pan am pain doc was ready to boot me as a patient when I told him I was going to Germany for back surgery. All he heard was back surgery, he never heard Germany. Btw, I agree with him that back surgery in Canada is a bad choice. Good luck with Manitoba Health. Keep in mind you will get a tax break on what is spent going for medical treatment out of Country. You can always get in touch with me if you want. I also know of others that had surgery in Germany that live around Steinbach, I'm sure they wouldn't mind talking to you.

Brew,

I was 53 when I went for the surgery. Taking a financial hit to our retirement funds played a lot in my mind. We had to remortgage our house to do the surgery. Certainly in my mind I was thinking how many more years do I have to work to pay for it. Ironic isn't it. Have to pay big bucks to go to another country for surgery that you can't get in your country so you can get back to work full time and pay taxes for the same medical system that could do nothing for you!

Chris is lucky that someone one here will talk about ADR. We are truly behind the times, ten years behind the US and decades behind Europe. BTW the procedure across the pond was 32K euros , two level laminectomy in Florida is $26K. No totally sure either would do it for me, thinking of a hybrid, ADR @4/5 and a form of fusion at 5/S1. The procedure put forth in Germany was an ADR in conjunction with the TOPS device, one that has not been mentioned here

My doctor was trained in Norway, and eventually came to Canada so I think she's more open minded about possible treatments. We'll see.

With Manitoba Health, I want to at least find out for myself what their feedback is. Somewhere during my online searches, I found a report that stated this (ADR) is a procedure covered by Manitoba Health, but there were no references so to me that doesn't hold much water. Thanks for the tip on the tax break, hadn't thought of that one.

At this point I recognize that this procedure will most likely be 100% out of pocket and with recent exchange rate changes will be in the 50k range. But if there's anything I can do to lessen that burden I'll give it a shot.

Boris, thanks for the offer to introduce me to other patients. As I continue my research I will take you up on that offer.

How far ahead do the doctors in Germany book? Do I have to make the decision weeks ahead or months? I would be targeting to have the surgery done this fall, Sept/Oct based on work/life commitments already in place.

Chris,

Surgery should be your absolute last resort. PT, MT, acupuncture, tens, a physiatrist, chiropractor, prolotherapy, meds, nsaids, calmags, should all be explored. Nutrition, a lot of good advice on that on this forum should all be explored. Harrison has some interesting perspective on it, it should all be explored before surgery.
Even if you consider surgery you should make sure that your pain generator will be fixed by the surgery.
I stayed away from the thought of surgery until one day, which was a very bad day, when my head dropped and I knew everything I had tried did not work and I knew I had to go to the next level. I can remember exactly when that happened. I also remember feeling that surgery was a long shot. I had tried everything to avoid surgery.

Boris, sorry for the late reply, I was away from my home and my computer.

Thanks for the tips on nutrition, I've started going through the forums to research ideas.

Regarding the other treatments you listed, I've already been through/going through PT, MT, acupuncture, tens, and a chiro. Haven't heard of prolotherapy or a physiatrist, are these practitioners/treatments available locally?

Calmags....do you mean calcium/magnesium capsules? I'll have to look that one up too.

Been through over the counter and prescription nsaids, honestly I'd like a fix not a band-aid.

My physical treatments have actually helped a lot over the past year to the point where I can now go to the gym regularly as long as I focus on good form. My strength and mobility are up, and pain has been reduced but at this point I'm not sure how much 'better' I'm going to get. Sitting with poor posture or rolling out of bed too quickly give me swift reminders of my condition. This is why I'm contemplating surgery. And it's also why I'm here, to learn from others and their experiences.

Hey wpgchris,

Prolotherapy is available in Winnipeg, I'll PM you the name of who I've heard of but never went to. The prolotherapist that I went to moved to burnaby bc. I considered him to be very good. A physiatrist, doctor of physical medicine or a pain doc is covered by Manitoba health. There are public and private ones. The public ones practice out of HSC, the pan am clinic, riverbend and a few other places. My wife goes to a public one that I consider one of the best, okay the best, public or private. You'll need a referral to get to see her and you don't want to compromise on that.
Calmags are calcium magnesium. There are a few posts here as to opinions as to what kind of Calmags work best.
As for acupuncture I'll PM you the name of the one I consider the premiere one in Winnipeg.