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Tom B. 02-21-2016 05:08 PM

Considering L5/S1 ADR
 
Hello! I'm back here after ten years.

After "selective endoscopic discectomy" by Dr. Yeung in Phoenix on March 14, 2006, I have tolerated minor to moderate lumbar pain and occasional sciatica depending on the time of day, my activity level, etc. To relieve the pain, I've learned to lie down frequently or stretch my back by dangling my legs between two chairs.

My pain is aggravated by my job as a pilot which requires much sitting and bouncing around in turbulence as well as lifting heavy bags. Compared to many people with back pain, I know that my complaints sound minor, but for a person to work as a pilot, the FAA requires very good health.

On February 9, 2016 I stood up from a chair and experienced numbness and tingling in my entire left leg and pelvis area along with moderate lumbar pain. The numbness is continuous, but has improved a bit over the last couple weeks.

Last week, I returned to the Texas Back Institute where, ten years ago, I discussed with Drs. Guyer and Zigler the possibility of ADR. My X-ray shows that my L5/S1 disc is mostly gone, as I already knew. I had an MRI and have an appointment scheduled this week with a surgeon there.

Any information and advice from anyone in a similar situation would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Generally, is the ADR recovery experience affected by the degree of disability prior to surgery? In other words, by taking a proactive approach and not waiting until I'm not able to function due to debilitating pain, can I expect the recovery experience to be better? Or do ADR patients experience difficult recoveries unpredictably or randomly?

annapurna 02-21-2016 06:27 PM

To separate things a bit: recovery from the surgery will, of course, be easier the more fit and healthy you are. As your pain increases, your overall health will suffer and you will see the effect in recovery time.

As your disk height decreases, your likelihood and severity of distraction pain will increase.

Your likelihood of a good outcome is affected the longer you go as your body starts changing other structures to account for the damaged disks. Facets, for instance, do suffer the longer you hold out with damaged disks.

The converse, though, isn't always true. Treating early doesn't guarantee a good outcome or fast recovery. I'll admit that I don't remember hearing of a person who had a good and quick recovery who was on death's door prior to surgery but that's strictly opinion based on limited anecdotal information.

Romakis 02-23-2016 09:54 AM

timing
 
I scheduled my surgery exactly for the reason that if I did not soon, my L5-S1 would auto-fuse. Once that happens, your ADR option goes away, or so I had been told.

Tom B. 02-23-2016 10:28 AM

Thanks
 
Thanks, annapurna and Romakis.

Disc replacement 2015 02-25-2016 12:24 PM

Hi Tom
Speaking from my experience, my functioning pre surg doesn't seem related to outcome (yet). Meaning, I have read stories of folks on here who had more debilitating issues than myself, who had easier recovery. On paper, I did everything "right" - lots of exercise and Physio preop, weight loss, good diet, lots of mental prep....and while I had a very "easy" few weeks right after the op, I am now functioning worse (3.5 months out) than I was preop. I've been proactive in Physio and do as I'm told, but bursitis, distraction pain and other new issues are getting me. I still have hopes to turn the corner.
So...I think there is a random element. But, I feel personally had I waited even longer for surg, that things mentally and physically could've made recovery harder. Hope that makes sense.
Best wishes with your decision

Tom B. 02-25-2016 02:45 PM

Getting an Epidural Injection
 
Thanks, Disc replacement 2015, for the information.

I saw a surgeon today. The MRI shows three affected levels. (I knew this, but hoped there had been some magical improvement to the two higher levels after ten years.)

We discussed the possibility of one or more ADRs or a fusion and an ADR. She said insurance will cover only one ADR.

Considering my relatively mild symptoms - leg numbness and moderate lumbar pain - she thinks I will improve with the help of an epidural injection. We'll see...

Not wanting to do a fusion for the purpose of saving money, but, instead, to seek the best outcome, I wonder how people are doing with the fusion plus ADR option compared to having two ADRs.

FutureRobot 02-25-2016 05:19 PM

Just my opinion, but if your back pain is mild and it's mostly tingling/nerve impingement you are dealing with, you may benefit from a bone preserving decompression. Maybe you could get an opinion from a doc who does IO Flex, as it preserves bone and would allow a more aggressive option in the future.

The spine can somewhat stabilize and pain can diminish from a degenerating spine, and I wonder if that's what your body is doing....

Also, if you get relief from dangling your legs, you might want to hop on an inversion table and see if that works.

Tom B. 02-25-2016 06:28 PM

Thanks
 
Thanks, FutureRobot, for the information and advice. I Googled and found that that technology is available here in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. I'll keep it in mind. Ten years ago, I had to travel to Phoenix to find minimally invasive surgery.

Speaking of decompression and dangling legs, I remember that for a few weeks after my discectomy, when I would let my legs hang, relieving pressure, my spine would separate so much that I would lose vision and feel like I was fainting. It was really crazy. I think that stretching my torso was actually sucking the blood out of my head. I'm not making this up. Haha. Has anyone else experienced this? I assume that on an inversion table, this would not happen.

FutureRobot 02-25-2016 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom B. (Post 112847)
Thanks, FutureRobot, for the information and advice. I Googled and found that that technology is available here in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. I'll keep it in mind. Ten years ago, I had to travel to Phoenix to find minimally invasive surgery.

Speaking of decompression and dangling legs, I remember that for a few weeks after my discectomy, when I would let my legs hang, relieving pressure, my spine would separate so much that I would lose vision and feel like I was fainting. It was really crazy. I think that stretching my torso was actually sucking the blood out of my head. I'm not making this up. Haha. Has anyone else experienced this? I assume that on an inversion table, this would not happen.

No you'll be fine on an inversion table; I use one every night to deal with my tingling. I have no numbness, just very mild back pain and mild tingling right now in my foot. I would feel silly getting a surgery with my symptoms. The inversion helps to calm it down before bed. Maybe go to a store and try one for 5-10 minutes...but don't go all the way yet as it will give you a head rush.

Since you sit all day, I would take it as a positive that your back pain is mild. If you can limit the nerve pain, you may be able to continue having a good quality of life.

It wouldn't hurt to get an opinion on the IO Flex, I've heard great things. Maybe it will give you another 10-20 years before you have to do something major, and who knows what technology may bring by then.

When you say tingling, is it the pins and needles type or the kind of "half fallen asleep/buzzing" type?

Tom B. 03-30-2016 02:08 AM

Considering Dr. Bertagnoli
 
Here's an update. (Not sure whether I should still be posting in this Introduction thread.)

I had a ESI, which helped to temporarily reduce the already not-too-bad lower back pain, but had no effect on the leg numbness, which I didn't expect anyway.

Then I followed up with the TBI surgeon and had a discogram of L3/4 and L4/5 which both had pain to level 7 on the scale. I followed up again and the surgeon explained that pain is not expected in a discogram of normal discs, which surprised me. Anyway, I knew the discs were not normal from the MRI, etc. The discogram pain was not my usual pain, which I told the doctor during the procedure. Despite this, his report stated that the L3/4 pain was "concordant," so I wasn't very impressed with him. I discussed this with my surgeon and she seemed to agree that the concordancy part of the test was questionable. Also, L4/5 leaked badly during the discogram.

I could go into more detail, but the end result was that the surgeon basically said, sorry, we can't help you. She previously told me that each ADR not covered by insurance costs $70,000.

So, I sent all my records to Tim to send to Dr. B. The interesting thing is how the TBI doctors never suggested a trip to Europe for multi-level ADR. I've refreshed myself from my online research ten years ago and have learned of the disappointment with insurance companies and the FDA. Maybe doctors just assume that everyone is educating themselves about their options. Maybe they have policy or legal reasons for not being able to recommend going to Europe.

Anyway, I'm waiting for a recommendation and cost information. Any recent information from experiences with Dr. Bertagnoli would be appreciated.

mgossel 03-30-2016 04:35 AM

Take a look at Dr. Clavel
 
Tom
I have done extensive research on all of the European surgeons and I would suggest that you do the same. I was planning on going with Dr. Bertagnoli until Cynlite told me all of the research she has done. It basically comes down to which type of disc you want implanted in you. From there, search all the possible surgeons that implant that disc. For me and after I got an extensive evaluation from Dr Zeegers, I decided to go with the M-6s. Dr Zeegers is very thorough and wrote a 37 page report on my back. He charged me 870 euros but it was extremely helpful. Since I had the evaluation, he suggested that the M-6s were the best fit for me. He doesn't implant M-6s so I thought that he was extremely honest and that he truly wanted to give me the best opinion and outcome and that he was not interested in just lining his pockets. He could have easily informed to get the type of discs he implants, but he didn't. Once you speak to him you will be amazed how honest he is and how he truly wants to help every patient understand their issues. Be prepared to give me massive amounts of information. Dr Bertagnoli, btw, only implants Prodiscs. I chose Dr Clavel from all the research that I have done and it happens to be the same surgeon that my pain management doctor suggested. You will see in this forum that there are several patients here that went to him for surgery. My surgery is scheduled for less than two weeks, but I have spent over a year researching this. Cynlite can also give u a chart that has information on the patients, doctors, and outcomes for the surgeries that have been posted on this forum. Plus she is a wealth of knowledge. In my opinion, I would look at all your choices before choosing one doctor and disc. If you can, also get evaluated by Dr Zeegers. Best wishes and good luck in your quest. Please feel free to ask me any questions.

mgossel 03-30-2016 04:40 AM

Dr Yeung
 
I live in Phoenix and I just realized that you went to Dr Yeung. I also have had surgery with him and another Dr in his practice. Dr Justin Field. I had my SEDs, fusion, and neurostimulator implant with that group of doctors. Take care.

Tom B. 03-30-2016 02:30 PM

Thanks
 
Thanks, mgossel, for the information! I lived in Arizona for fifteen years, in the Phoenix area for most of that time, working as a flight instructor and charter pilot. So, seeing Dr. Yeung ten years ago was kind of a homecoming.

This morning, I've been catching up online on some of the discussion of the newer artificial discs and recently popular surgeons. I have a lot to learn. I'm just going to ramble a bit because I'm not really qualified to do much else -

My TBI surgeon said yesterday that I am analytical, which is true. I know there are many people who don't do much analysis, but just get a "second opinion" then do what seems right intuitively, hoping for the best. I'm fairly analytical and have OCD tendencies, but also like to, at times, make decisions based on other people's opinions. (The real extreme is that we just bought a Jeep Renegade based primarily on its appearance. Isn't that crazy? We did refer to consumer reviews and such, but you get my point.)

Anyway, I'm ready to jump to a surgery based on relatively old information, but also feel myself being drawn into the abyss of analysis and deliberation. In my particular case I'm fortunate to have some retirement savings I can pull out early (I think they'll let me do that), but I'm unfortunate in that I can't work as a pilot with relatively minor symptoms. So, I'm compelled to just take care of my back problem as best I can in a reasonably short period of time with whatever methods and surgeons are relatively proven.

(As I said, I was going to ramble. I apologize, but I'm not on Facebook anymore, so this may be a substitution. Contradictorily, you may notice that I'm not so big on privacy. I don't really care who reads this if it provokes some discussion and helps me get information. I haven't been stung yet by the whole identity theft thing. Maybe that explains it.)

Anyway, back on topic. When I first saw a picture of the M-6 disc, my first reactions were, "wow, that's a lot of parts" and "it looks a little gimmicky." Then today I realized the M-6 is the next big thing that Dr. Bertagnoli was referring to on his Center of Rotation page. When I read that page, it made a whole lot of sense. So, now I'm confused a bit.

Oversimplifying, I know, but is that Prodisc center plastic part going to pop out into my back? Am I going to damage my facets because the Prodisc frees up my spine so much? How old is Dr. Bertagnoli? Is there an age to stop doing surgery? The FAA forces airline pilots to retire at age 65.

Would the M-6 end up like an old shoe (where did that humorous comparison first come from?) that is deformed over time? What would be the downside of having my body weight supported by flexible material at the angle formed by my L5/S1 level? Would the M-6 pull loose from the bone by twisting forces?

OK, there are many more questions, but I'll stop, for now. Again, thanks for the thoughtful responses.

Fathub 03-30-2016 10:35 PM

A long time ago.....we had a maverick in Canada and depending on how you look at it.......when your in the front.....you have arrows in your back.....
http://www.justice4you.org/cases_Kuntz.php

Tom B. 03-30-2016 11:09 PM

Thanks
 
Thanks, Fathub. That was an interesting article, a long one. I just skimmed the last two pages, but got the gist of it.

You just recently saw Dr. Bertagnoli? How was the experience? I'm waiting for a response from him. Generally, how disabled-looking did his patients look pre-operatively, if you happened to notice? If I go somewhere for a multi-level ADR, I won't be limping in or using a walker, but I'm pretty much done with my career unless the leg numbness and moderate lower back pain go away. I just wonder whether doctors will see that I've got good strength and balance, etc., and am not grimacing in pain and will tell me to take a hike.

Grover771 05-01-2016 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom B. (Post 112982)
Thanks, mgossel, for the information! I lived in Arizona for fifteen years, in the Phoenix area for most of that time, working as a flight instructor and charter pilot. So, seeing Dr. Yeung ten years ago was kind of a homecoming.

This morning, I've been catching up online on some of the discussion of the newer artificial discs and recently popular surgeons. I have a lot to learn. I'm just going to ramble a bit because I'm not really qualified to do much else -

My TBI surgeon said yesterday that I am analytical, which is true. I know there are many people who don't do much analysis, but just get a "second opinion" then do what seems right intuitively, hoping for the best. I'm fairly analytical and have OCD tendencies, but also like to, at times, make decisions based on other people's opinions. (The real extreme is that we just bought a Jeep Renegade based primarily on its appearance. Isn't that crazy? We did refer to consumer reviews and such, but you get my point.)

Anyway, I'm ready to jump to a surgery based on relatively old information, but also feel myself being drawn into the abyss of analysis and deliberation. In my particular case I'm fortunate to have some retirement savings I can pull out early (I think they'll let me do that), but I'm unfortunate in that I can't work as a pilot with relatively minor symptoms. So, I'm compelled to just take care of my back problem as best I can in a reasonably short period of time with whatever methods and surgeons are relatively proven.

(As I said, I was going to ramble. I apologize, but I'm not on Facebook anymore, so this may be a substitution. Contradictorily, you may notice that I'm not so big on privacy. I don't really care who reads this if it provokes some discussion and helps me get information. I haven't been stung yet by the whole identity theft thing. Maybe that explains it.)

Anyway, back on topic. When I first saw a picture of the M-6 disc, my first reactions were, "wow, that's a lot of parts" and "it looks a little gimmicky." Then today I realized the M-6 is the next big thing that Dr. Bertagnoli was referring to on his Center of Rotation page. When I read that page, it made a whole lot of sense. So, now I'm confused a bit.

Oversimplifying, I know, but is that Prodisc center plastic part going to pop out into my back? Am I going to damage my facets because the Prodisc frees up my spine so much? How old is Dr. Bertagnoli? Is there an age to stop doing surgery? The FAA forces airline pilots to retire at age 65.

Would the M-6 end up like an old shoe (where did that humorous comparison first come from?) that is deformed over time? What would be the downside of having my body weight supported by flexible material at the angle formed by my L5/S1 level? Would the M-6 pull loose from the bone by twisting forces?

OK, there are many more questions, but I'll stop, for now. Again, thanks for the thoughtful responses.

Hi Tom,

I'm coming in late to this discussion, as I've not been on the board for a while, but wanted to share my experience with you as you consider a 3 level.
I had a 3-Level Hybrid surgery with Dr. blumenthal at TBI in July of 2013. ADR at L3-4 and L4-5 with ALIF at L5-S1.

I'm 3 years in and started having pain again about 9 months ago. I'd joined a gym and thought I was doing really well and thought maybe I screwed something up. I had my X-rays at TBI (my annual follow up) and everything still looked perfect. Doc said it was possibly my OA and sent me for injections. I've had RFA (radio frequency ablation) from L3-S1 to no avail. I keep telling my pain management doc that it hurts down at the fusion level and could it just be my facets or something at the SI area. We're going to look there next.

At this point I'm looking at acupuncture and a second opinion that is offered free with my employers healthcare coverage (2nd MD). I lived in Florida at the time I had my surgery at TBI and my employer (a college) insurance BCBS of Fla did not cover Lumbar ADR. We paid for it out of our retirement fund. Doc didn't think an ADR at L5 was needed, so I did a fusion. I honestly think it's the fusion that's causing me my pain. (I wonder if they can go back in and out an artificial disc there now?)

Anyway, sorry for the long story... I've been reading yours and wanted to touch base to share mine. I hope you can find relief at some point, so you can continue to keep us safe as we travel the skies. :angel:

Tom B. 05-02-2016 01:14 AM

Thanks, Grover 771
 
Thanks, Grover771. Copying and pasting from my comments last Wednesday in the travel thread I started -

"OK, made it to Bogen. Three-level ADR surgery yesterday. So far, so good. Level 8 distraction pain. A bit of sciatica when I straighten my legs. Drank a whole pot of tea.

"Happened pretty quickly because the Prof. Dr. had a cancellation and we flew standby with no problems."

It seems that I, too, am learning what I've heard from others, that recovery does not happen in a straight line. I'm still in the hospital and am supposed to be discharged today. The pain has been a bit better each day, so we went for a long walk yesterday to the church on the hill in Bogen that many in this group are familiar with. This morning, the pain woke me up at level 6. I assume it's because of yesterday's exertion. Keep in mind, I'm still on medication every day.

Grover771, so, on my mind, like you, is the question of the source of the deep achy pain. I still have the left leg, foot and pelvis numbness, but no sharp pain that I was afraid might result from additional nerve damage or stretching during surgery. Since three natural discs are gone and everything is stabilized and the nerves are freed up, I hope the ache in my lower back is from the surrounding tissue. Is this the type of pain you have? Do you get relief by just moving around and walking? That is what I noticed yesterday with the long walk.

I live near TBI and was planning to follow up with Dr. Zigler who I saw three times, ten years ago. I've never seen Dr. Blumenthal. Do you recommend him?

Fathub 05-02-2016 10:18 PM

Tom,
Take it easy on the long walks including when you move over to Straubing. Do the walks but short walks and 2-3 times/day. Stay on the Ottoman muscle relaxants and most important of all......DON'T overdo it.......cut yourself some slack time and allow your traumatized body to catch up.

Tom B. 05-03-2016 03:46 AM

Thanks
 
Thanks, Fathub, maybe I learned that lesson. I feel a bit a better today. I saw the Dr. Prof. again yesterday before we left the hospital. He said to take it easy and that too much activity can cause problems - not even physical therapy for six weeks, other than the small things the hospital therapist showed me. I definitely don't want to dislodge a disc or overstress something. It makes me wonder what all the potential problems are.

My understanding from what I've heard and read and what the back brace does is that I mainly shouldn't flex or twist to any limit of motion - particularly bending backwards.

Tom B. 07-05-2016 04:28 PM

Update
 
Here's an update. It's been ten weeks since my three-level (L3 - S1) ADR surgery by Dr. Bertagnoli.

I started physical therapy three weeks ago. Either it's a coincidence or the therapy has helped quite a bit. My lower back pain and left leg numbness and pain symptoms had been significantly worse compared to before the surgery. My biggest problem was being awakened by leg pain every night.

Now I'm on tramadol with "as needed" oxycodone and one gabapentin for sleeping. I could probably do without the oxycodone. I'm walking and sitting for longer periods and sleeping through the night.

The main thing to note is the probable benefit of physical therapy, which seems to have made a big difference. Generally, my symptoms are comparable to prior to surgery, with the added benefit of having a stable spine.

I'm planning to follow up at TBI in a few weeks.

Disc replacement 2015 07-05-2016 04:44 PM

Glad to hear it! Further relief is just around your corner!

Fathub 07-05-2016 09:48 PM

Hey Tom,
Good to hear from you and to wear out a phrase here.....slow and steady wins the race with the spine surgery. Glad your progressing.

Tom B. 07-13-2016 05:03 PM

Follow-Up
 
Here's an interesting development. It's time for my 90-day follow-up (after 3-level lumbar ADR surgery). I plan to follow up online and via email with Dr. B., but also want to do so locally. At the very least, I need a local doctor for X-rays to send to Germany. And a local doctor will probably do better coordinating my physical therapy.

Texas Back Institute initially told me they would not help me until after 90 days following surgery by an outside doctor. Today, they told me that no surgeon at Texas Back Institute will see me for follow-up. It's against their policy to follow up another surgeon's work. My initial reaction was "WTH?" Is this normal?

Harrison 07-13-2016 09:14 PM

There is no normal or standard. Some US ADR docs are cool with it -- most not. Maybe a 70/30 split? Rough guess.

Tom B. 07-13-2016 11:43 PM

Thanks
 
Thanks, Harrison. I wasn't aware of the extent of this issue.

It's just funny that TBI told me to wait 90 days, then, after 90 days, just said no.

I think I understand the legal no-man's-land aspect of medical tourism, and the insurance situation in the US as it pertains to ADR. I can imagine legitimate reasons for a doctor not to recommend overseas medical care and for a surgeon not to want to follow up another doctor's work. It just doesn't seem fair since, from my perspective, I made the right decision for all the right reasons, but don't really want to travel to Europe every time I need an X-ray or coordination with my physical therapist (at TBI, by the way).

It's crazy that it was TBI who told me they couldn't really help me with a three-level operation. Now, this very renowned practice just tells me they still can't help me.

I wonder whether there is some sort of rivalry or bad blood between some surgeons here and those in Europe.

I put a call in to another well-respected spine surgeon in my area, so we'll see.

Tom B. 08-24-2016 06:29 PM

Update
 
Here's an update for those who are interested.

It's been almost four months since my three-level ADR and almost four weeks without any pain medication. I did go back on gabapentin for a week to ease the withdrawal from the tramadol. So, it's been almost three weeks without any medication whatsoever. Physical therapy is going well.

I followed up with Dr. Gill in Dallas, had a mylegram/CT scan and sent new images to Dr. B. in Germany.

My pain level hardly qualifies as pain - 0 to 1 or 2 on the scale - with occasional ache in the low back. Unfortunately, I still have continuous left leg partial numbness and occasional left leg tightness or ache. There's a little burning sensation in the left ankle with restless-leg symptoms that worsen at night and sometimes keep me awake.

I have a September appointment with a neurosurgeon to try to determine the source of the continuing symptoms. I know nerves take months to heal and was hoping that I just lack patience, but the mylegram shows (as did previous MRIs) a disc protrusion at T12/L1. I think it's likely that this is the source.

Does anyone have thoughts or advice on problems at that higher level?

Harrison 08-24-2016 10:30 PM

Tom,

Issues at that level are unusual. That said, I had a chiro adjustment and that same level was injured by the chiropractor. After that, I simple hung from a chin-up bar, took ibuprofen and took it easy for several weeks. I lucked out and that area never presented a problem.

Yes, the competition between clinics is obvious and sometimes annoying. But at least there are options and somewhat of a free market...sortuv.

How are you caring for yourself now, in terms of:

- detoxification of your body;
- decreasing meds;
- eating organic;
- moderate exercise, getting muscular relaxation;
- enriching your life with love and energy;
- being in nature;
- etc.!

Tom B. 08-24-2016 10:48 PM

Thanks
 
Harrison, thanks for the questions. I probably score about 50% on your list - off medication, eating fairly healthily, physical therapy with daily exercise including walking.

I do seem to be very low on energy. Even though I've been sleeping around eight hours each night, I'm requiring an hour nap every day. Maybe that's just old age, but I wish there was a magic pill. It could be lingering pain medication withdrawal.

My blood pressure has been high lately, too - a new thing for me.

Fathub 08-25-2016 10:00 PM

Tom,
I've gone through the same things and am still going through the same things. BP is bad for going up in pain and the 'pinched' nerves take time to stop aching......
Exercise (light), walking and more walking.....

Good to hear from you Tom.

beaverc 08-26-2016 04:55 AM

Europe
 
Tom B I read your posts and it sounds like you are doing very well, considering you had a three level ADR and you are off pain meds. so soon. Was your surgery done with both anterior and posterior approaches (cut you front and back?).
I think the big question is why do Americans have to go to Europe to have any reasonable hope for a successful surgery, hence hope for a life after?
Thanks for your postings

Tom B. 08-27-2016 10:55 AM

Thanks
 
Thanks, Fathub, for the encouragement and advice!

Beaverc, it was the anterior approach only, with a vertical (not a medical word?) incision. I think I saw somewhere that for just one disc, the cut is horizontal.

My thinking about going to Europe - thank goodness that the surgery I needed wasn't covered by insurance - so that I was forced to go where the surgeons have the most experience AND where the cost is lower.

It's really a shame that, after ten years of paying attention to ADR, I haven't seen that there are dozens of surgeons with LOTS of experience, covered by insurance and using disc designs that are more standardized according to each purpose or individual case.

I mean, really, what's the hold-up with this technology? Fusion is necessary in many cases, I'm sure, but for people who are forced into it for economic reasons or because they aren't as informed as we are on this forum, it's not fair.

Romakis 08-29-2016 09:49 AM

Tom B
 
Excellent point Tom! If my IP paid for the ADR in the US, I most definitely would have done here; God knows what the outcome might have been :eek2::eek2::eek2:

beaverc 08-30-2016 01:59 AM

Outcome
 
Romakis; "God knows what the outcome might have been" :eek2::eek2::eek2: Agreed !!, you could have been one of the unfortunate ones who contracted the dreaded "FAILED BACK SURGERY SYNDROME". Fabricated "CYA" nonsense by Drs. / hospitals / insurance companies / attorneys all at the expense of the patient.
I have read of spine patients shipped off to "pain management" doctors after the diagnosis of FBSS or fighting to have another surgery for months or longer all the while worse than they were prior to surgery.
If I'm correct the term "failed back surgery syndrome" doesn't exist in Europe. You and Tom made good choices going overseas it sounds like you guys are thankfully doing all right.

Tom B. 09-27-2016 01:54 AM

Steadily Improving
 
Thanks, Romakis and beaverc.

Here's a quick update five months after three-level ADR. I saw the neurosurgeon and was told that the T12/L1 protrusion is likely not causing my symptoms. Since I saw him, I have SLOWLY continued to improve. I still have the left leg partial numbness, but the ankle burning/tingling is not waking me up anymore, so that's an improvement. The left leg tightness while walking and standing is mostly gone.

My pain level is pretty much zero to one on the scale. My PT says my strength and range of motion is nearly normal except for side bending, which doesn't feel bad to me. Maybe I never could bend sideways. I'm back at the gym two or three times per week, doing close to the easy workout I used to do.

The main lesson is to believe it when they say that the recovery is SLOW, but steady.

beaverc 09-27-2016 04:59 AM

Recovery
 
TomB: "My pain level is pretty much zero to one on the scale. My PT says my strength and range of motion is nearly normal except for side bending, which doesn't feel bad to me. Maybe I never could bend sideways. I'm back at the gym two or three times per week, doing close to the easy workout I used to do"= Most Excellent!! Glad to hear it Tom.

mgossel 10-13-2016 09:07 AM

HI Tom,
I have not been on here for awhile. I also had adr on multiple levels in my neck and back around the same time you did. I completely agree with you that it is a long SLOW recovery, but it was well worth it and I haven't felt this good since before my accident 12 years ago. I would say I am about 70 percent in my recovery and it gets better everyday. I still get bad days but they are nowhere near as bad as they used to be. I haven't used a cane or walker since my surgery, and before I used them anytime I could get out of bed. Anyway enough about me. I am glad that you are doing better and I wish you the best and I truly believe that you will look back on this and realize that you did the best thing possible for yourself. I don't know about you but this is the first time I trust and believe in what my surgeon says. I have hope and faith again. Even though we aren't through the woods yet. We will be soon enough. Take care.

Tom B. 10-13-2016 10:46 AM

Thanks
 
Thanks, beaverc and mgossel!

mgossel, I recognize your name, so must have seen your earlier posts. I'm glad you're doing well. I mentioned to my PT that it's frustrating not being able to predict the rate of recovery. I told her that I look back to yesterday and last week, trying to compare the level of symptoms, but don't see obvious change. It's more on a time scale of months that I notice improvement.

mgossel 10-17-2016 06:50 PM

Tom,
Lower back is always slower. Just think about it, it has to heal while it bears the load of your body. It's getting a work out, but have faith it will come. I also have found that that people with chronic pain has a ridiculous amount of pain receptors so it doesn't take much at all to feel the pain. It takes several months to get back down to a normal level even upto a year. The more that they are not used the quicker the recovery. Anyway I have to run just wanted to give a possibility of why it takes so long. Take care my friend. 💪💪💪💪 You can do it.

Tom B. 01-21-2017 12:52 AM

Nine-Month Update
 
Thanks, mgossel!

Here's a nine-month update (after three-level lumbar ADR - Bertagnoli ProDisc-L) -

Whatever was going on with my left ankle (ache and tingling) has mostly resolved. I still have the lingering numbness in my left pelvis, leg and foot, but it doesn't bother me much. I still think it's very slowly improving.

I've finished with physical therapy (continuing exercises at home) and have been going to the gym twice a week. My therapist measured my range of motion to be normal in all directions. I can now touch my toes without bending my knees for the first time in several years.

I've followed up with local surgeons as well as Dr. Bertagnoli (via email) and have been told my X-rays look great.

Today, I was told the FAA approved my First Class Medical Certificate, but it will take a couple weeks to process and mail. Unfortunately, this means I will have to go back to work. Haha. We will see in the next months how my back holds up to all the sitting and turbulence.

My energy level is still low. Maybe it's just old age or laziness, and it does seem everyone has this complaint. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Tom B. 12-12-2018 06:31 PM

Two Years, Eight Months Since 3-Level ProDisc-L
 
Here’s an update -

It’s been two years and eight months since my 3-level ProDisc-L surgery by Dr. Bertagnoli. I’m still doing great. I still have the partial numbness that I had in the front of my left leg before the surgery, but continue to work full time as an airline pilot.

I did sprain my left ankle twice while recovering from the spine surgery. I stepped wrong (fell) off a chair, then later missed the last step of our staircase in the dark. My physical therapist tried to address the sprain, but I ended up having ankle surgery in 2017 - same leg as the spine symptoms - OMG! The surgeon said a bone had chipped off. So, I now have artificial ligaments in my left ankle - I’m nearly bionic now.

Back to the ADR recovery, I had my two-year follow-up earlier this year with Dr. Gill at UTSW and sent the X-rays to Germany as usual. Both doctors said everything looks good. My range of motion is normal. I don’t have any instability or pain other than after sitting for a couple of hours, which I think is really my butt hurting and is normal.

Some lingering achiness in my ankle bothers me more than my back does. The numbness down the front of my leg is sometimes annoying if I’m not wearing shorts. But none of this reflects on the success of the ADR surgery.

One thing I can say for sure about recovery from surgery, though - the physical and emotional turmoil of pain medication withdrawal makes me not ever want to need it again. I never abused it and stopped when I didn’t think I needed it, but the following few months were not nice - another topic for another thread.


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