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Benjaminrbecker 11-13-2011 07:38 AM

2 Level Lumbar DDD Considering ADR
I would be grateful to hear from any members inclined to share info related to two level lumbar ADR.

Considering doctors (Bertagnoli, Clavel, Pimento, etc.).
Disc: M6L, Prodisc, Freedomdisc
Anything else!

Many thanks!


JEVE19 11-13-2011 11:02 AM

Hi Ben and welcome.

Did you read the surgical outcome section?

Personally, I would not consider Dr. B.
He owns part of Prodisc so there goes an unbiased opinion.
You don't want a back factory.

Consider post op care.

If you read through surgical outcomes, post op care is important and not all docs keep the "care" one you fly back home.

laid up doc 11-13-2011 12:38 PM

agree w/ vicki - you don't want to be part of a factory, or deal w/ someone w/ a huge financial incentive to put in a particular device when other possibly superior ones are available. (main surgeon i know of w/ big financial ties is Bertagnoli to Prodisc). as far as i know, Boeree and Clavel use the M6 b/c they like it and have a stream of good outcomes using it. no financial ties, not factories...

some people have had good outcomes at Stenum - but many have had issues reaching ANYONE post-op.

my experience w/ Dr Clavel pre and post op has been better than any with any US physician period - speaking as someone who has to advocate for care by other physicians on behalf of patients. obviously given the distance, it isn't THE SAME as having your doctor there to see you for say, a wound infection (which i have) - but i have had no problems getting into a general surgeon about that. you have to feel comfortable having your post-op care at a distance if you go overseas, period. i am in a different situation than most, being a physician myself (and beyond that, in a specialty that deals w/ just about anything).

many others have great experiences w/ Dr Boeree. Out of the German surgeons, I think Zeegars has the fewest complaints? He uses the Activ-L, which wasn't an option for me.

good luck - it's a tough and very personal decision.

Jstuckey 11-13-2011 09:14 PM

Good luck on your search. I have a lumbar hybrid (6 weeks post op). You are welcome to look through my blog for info, and ask any questions publicly or private message. I had opinions (besides my local) from Pimenta, Bertagnoli, Clavel, and ultimately went with Boeree.

Benjaminrbecker 11-14-2011 01:15 PM

Dear Vicki, "Laid up doc" and Joey,

Thank you very much for the information.

I am currently corresponding with Clavel, Zeegers and am hoping to hear from Boeree soon.

The M6 seems to be the best hardware out there notwithstanding the shorter period it has been available. The shock absorbing qualities seem to make it superior to the pro-disc.

It's a pretty scary scenario to have to go through and it is extremely helpful and comforting to be able to correspond with you.

I hope that you all are doing well.

Many thanks,

Ben (34)

laid up doc 11-14-2011 03:41 PM

you might pm herron65 - he had a 2 level lumbar done by Dr Clavel. do a search and you'll find a few who have 2 M6's by Clavel or Boeree.

i fortunately just needed one... am your age so can empathize quite a bit about device concerns. unfortunately there's no crystal ball... but i think i made the best choice i could.

Texas Toast 11-14-2011 07:42 PM


I'm still awaiting testing, but my research points to 2nd-generation devices like the M6 and Freedom Disc.

Not only are they shock absorbing like a natural disc, they allow movement that more closely resembles natural movement. The Pro Disc, I think, is a ball-and-socket joint, allowing too much movement in all directions, stressing facets and adjacent discs.

The 2nd-generation discs are also one-piece. The photos I've seen of the Pro Disc make it look like it's at least 3 pieces; too difficult for the surgeon (or dare I say engineer) to correctly place in many instances. From what I've read, the pieces of the Pro Disc can also slip out of alignment.

Different devices for different situations, but I will have a ton of questions if a surgeon recommends the Pro Disc to me. Sounds your on the right track!

silversurfer 11-22-2011 11:53 PM

Am in the same boat. DDD at L4-S1 and have been "evaluated" by Bertagnoli and given a quote of almost $45k. These are the first concerns I'm seeing about B being a "factory" and am equally concerned about the issues of 1st gen vs 2nd gen products. Whereas before I was ready to jump under any German scalpel I could find (I've been researching this for almost ten years and B and Z were the only ones doing it back then), now I think I'll continue my research and look into Boeree and Clavel.

Also Ben:)

jss 11-23-2011 01:32 AM


Originally Posted by silversurfer (Post 91612)
... now I think I'll continue my research and look into Boeree and Clavel.

Also Ben:)


I would certainly encourage you to pursue those two surgeons. There are two more I would recommend just as highly that you consider; Dr Luiz Pimenta in Sao Paulo, Brazil, and Dr Jack Zigler at Texas Back in Plano, TX. All four of those gentlemen turn out a steady stream of positive outcomes with very few complaints from their actual patients.

Good luck, Jeff

Benjaminrbecker 11-28-2011 02:19 AM


Thanks for your posts.

An update and some info.

Dr B gave me a quote of EUR 32.

I have also been in touch with Dr Pimenta in Brazil, Clavel, Zeegers and Boeree. It is very difficult to know how to proceed from here.

Z has provided by far the most comprehensive review and diagnosis of my condition (at a cost of EUR500; Boeree also charges, GBP250). The one sticking point I have with Z is that he recommends Active L, which is not second generation (not shock absorbing). He suggests Active L because he says that it is custom made for each recipient, whereas all others are not.

Regarding Drs Bertagnoli, Clavel and Boeree there seem to be many positive and happy patients.

I would appreciate any advice, info or update you may have as well.

Best of luck.


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