Don

I asked if mine could be saved for perhaps possible future tissue engineering/cultures. No was the answer, they are thrown away.

Lynda

Ive had spine problems since I was in junor high. I now believe lymes is the cause. Some people may want to see the movie on lymes coming out soon. See http://youtube.com/watch?v=sxWgS0XLVqw Listen for the spine degenerative disease in the video.

Messy Spine, thanks for the link. I briefly talked to the producer of this film last year, so I appreciate the link & reminder. It will be interesting to see how the film is received. For me, any reference by a doctor linking spine problems and Lyme is an especially interesting event!

BTW: It's "Lyme" disease, based on where the disease was discovered in CT, 35 years ago. Concerned parents got together to discuss the arthritis-like symptoms had afflicted their children. Their common complaints? Back and joint pain!

A patient referred me to this interesting research paper that specifically implicates some of these little buggers in everything from joint disease to arthritis. Surprisingly, this document is eleven years old and not easily found. The research was funded by the NIH, it is found on the CDC site: http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol3no1/baseman.htm

It is notable that the NIH now provides little funding for this kind of research; I heard its actually none. I'll see if I can confirm this. Here’s an excerpt relating to a recent post in another forum:
_________________________________

Rheumatoid Arthritis and Other Human Arthritides

The occurrence of various Mycoplasma and Ureaplasma species in joint tissues of patients with rheumatoid arthritis, sexually transmitted reactive arthritis, and other human arthritides can no longer be ignored (8). A clinical trial of long-term (6 to 12 months) antibiotic (doxycycline) therapy before cartilage destruction might prove beneficial in managing such frequent and often debilitating infections.

Extensive clinical and microbiological evidence indicates that mycoplasmas alone can elicit a spectrum of illness for which no other agents are incriminated. The eradication of these pathogenic mycoplasmas from various tissue sites requires an intact and functional immune system, although persons with fully competent immune systems may have difficulty eliminating mycoplasmas, even with recommended prolonged drug therapy. Nonetheless, mycoplasmas are still viewed as subordinates to other infectious agents and are relegated to a category of commensals that unwittingly cause disease in patients whose immune systems offer little resistance to microbial stress and overload.

Harrison,

Great paper and very interesting. Too bad finding a doctor to accept these theories or investigate them is so difficult. I can't find one.

Thanks-

Don, just to nitpick...these aren't theories. I know you this, but it's interesting that the "standard of care" disregards these facts as such...

thanks richard... this is definitely disconcerting. since having some bloodwork done to test for these various "bugs" is much less invasive and less expensive than all the epidurals, facet injections, and discograms we all receive in trying to nail down pain generators for our degenerative spines, if one could find a good doctor to work with why not test for these bugs?

when i had surgery i asked about saving my discs for tissue engineering but i was told at this time they couldn't do that. i should have asked about sending then to a lab for analysis. these are our discs! and they are just getting thrown away? i'm sure there is some fear about what our discs would reveal and how this may change future treatment.

i'm only 32 yrs old and yet i have 4 level DDD. yes, i had an injury and presumably tore L3-S1 from it and preceded to run, backpack and ski until i had nothing left at L5-S1 but still. i have the spine of an old woman. L2-3 now shows radiographic signs of DDD. my scoliosis could be pinching it but there may be another cause. i consider myself to have a strong immune system as i almost never get sick but it's worth investigating if anything else is causing this degenerative cascade.

Some of the doctors i saw said I had MS and i do not. Before i got sick with spine pain and lymes I never got colds. Now i know why some people have hyperimmune systems and never get colds.

Messy, thanks for posting..but it's "Lyme," where it was discovered (see previous post).

I've also heard that some patients can & do have "hyper-vigilant" immune systems; I've also read about it recently for the Nth time in reference to "never getting colds." I can dig up references if anyone cares.

Harrison, what I meant was that for any doctor to accept this, there would need to be acceptance of the theory that the particular person's disease or symtoms were caused by these bacteria. Many doctors think the immune response is due to genetic predisposition or some other factors, including viruses, and won't quickly accept new ideas unless research is done.

There are so many competing theories of causes of DDD and many are probably right depending on the case.

Lots of questions, but at least they are being asked and eventually something will be done. I'd like to see someone get a grant and do a study of about 200 Marshal Protocol patients and get some real numbers. As you know, I definitely think I had some little bugger make me sick and it is what affects my spine and joints. But it can't get beyond the theory stage without real research being done and published.