axiomed freedom cervical disc
 

hello everone,

Firs a quick about me. I was in a car crash at 19, had symptoms of a bulged disc for 6 months (didn't know it) after. Eventually became asymptomatic. Fast forward to last summer at 22 years old and I reinjured throwing out a mattress. Didn't realize it was anything serious anyhow, just sometimes driving hurt my shoulders and neck. Kept lifting weights until I woke up with pain at about a 5 and little function in my right hand and arm. Now, 5 months later, one ortho says go do what you want you'll be okay just a small bulge. Second opinion sent me to pt which I just started.

I wake up regularly in the night because my arm goes numb, can't much lift weights or run (basically only two things I like to do for myself) and have back and neck pain. Regularly a 3/10, and occasionally a 7 or 8/10

I found a clinical study in Europe for the freedom cervical disc. Makes much more sense than these ball and socket designs (much more natural). Im considering trying to get into the trial. Based on your experiences, should i wait and see if the bulgr (C6-C7) becomes asymptomatic, or try ADR while I'm still a good candidate? My quality of life has gone significantly down without athletics. Are outcomes generally good? Its difficult to tell because of what papers consider a good outcome, and most people who are online about it tend to have bad outcomes (understandably so).

Thanks

ADR,

I sent you a reply on your first thread. It is way too soon for you to consider ADR. You should create a signature with the details of how you were injured as well as what treatments you've tried up until now. Have you even gone through physical therapy? If so, put that in your signature. Look at mine as an example. This way the readers can give you the best recommendation possible. I believe that you have many options to go through (physical therapy, pain management, minimally-invasive surgery) before even thinking of ADR. I truly believe that you have a chance to get better if you follow the order that I outlined. One final thought, have you had an EMG test? This is a test of nerve conductivity, usually performed by a neurologist, which will let you know if the pain and discomfort you are experiencing are the result of a pinched nerve in the area of your disc herniation. If there is a direct correlation, pain management specialists and surgeons will be more comfortable treating you (knowing that treating the herniation is likely to make you feel better and improve your life).

Gene

Gene, thanks for your advice and for both replies. Duly noted.

I'm currently doing PT after several months of McKenzie and inversion at home, just started, but they seem to think damage is done and haven't given me any idea that they hope to fix the problem, only lessen symptoms by strengthening and stretches for ROM. I was really hoping at PT they would want to focus on fixing whats wrong. The whole process is pretty frustrating. I dont want to just go through life with pain management and pills, Im hoping for an actual solution. The reason im even yhinking surgery so early is becayse im afraid problem will get worse and i will live years in pain than have to fuse.

My mother has had 2 fusions and still has constant pain and limited function in both arms. I'm very scared to end up like that.

ADR,

I'm glad to hear you've tried PT but not happy to hear that it's not helping. What I was suggesting is that many pain managements specialist can actually perform coblation nucleoplasty. Look at the following link: Pain Management DR Scottsdale Introduces Coblation Nucleoplasty Treating Spinal Pain

If this is something you are seriously considering, a pain management specialist is the type of physician you need to consult with.

Gene

Ah I see. I think they perform it st my surgeons office, the stony Brook university spine and scoliosis center. At leastit says so online. I have a follow up after PT, so if that fails then I will discuss it. A shame insurance doesn't cover the procedure. I have weeks where there are minimal symptoms and I think I'm getting better, than the next week its like I just got out of a fist fight 24/7.

Also see this topic:

http://www.adrsupport.org/forums/f45...therapy-12096/

When you can, pls insert a signature too.

Thanks Harrison. Added. Also this website is a great service.

Hey new buddie, don't thank me yet -- my questions may drive you nuts! Tell us more about your spinal condition and health. Most people here use parts of their MRI studies to convey the health of their spine -- both soft and hard tissues.

When was your last MRI? How raw, organic and healthy is your diet?

PS: If you search the site, you'll find app 50 topics on Axiomed.

Well before thus happened in december I was eating decently (not perfect, certainly not raw or organic, but mostly cooking my own food) but was in great overall fitness. Actually the more serious symptoms started the day after a personal record bench press. Didn't expect it to possibly be my last at any rate. I ran about 3x a week (ran track and xc in HS and college) as well as the gym every 2/3 days. I was training for a race called the Arnold swarschennegar (sp?) Pump and Run. Bench press then run a race.


Since the injury I've gone into a pretty severe depression to be honest, since I've decided this might not just go away with conservative care. I do my stretches and go for walks every day to get juices flowing, but overall my diet has gone far downhill because I dont have the motivation to cook and am too upset to think about eating on bad days. So I'd say my diet is really bad right now. I do drink tons of water every day.

With regards to my MRI and X Rays, my x ray was about as good as can be. The MRI found a mild bulging disc right at the nerve root to my right arm C6-C7. I will attach a still when I get to my computer. The first surgeon said its not a big deal, mild arthritic disc bulge, keep living life how you were. I saw him during a time I thought it was getting better, so I decided I wouldn't go back to working out but would keep being conservative until it got better. It stayed the same and some weeks feels worse, so I got a second opinion. He said that if it were him he wouldn't consider surgery yet at all, and sent me to PT. I spoke with him about ADR and he said we will discuss after my round of PT, and said it might still improve.

That's basically my story. I've been lurking these boards for quite some time but held off joining because it kind of felt like once I joined it was admitting conservative care failed. Hence the lame username Haha, I was originally not planning on sticking around for long, but it seems like I just might. And I certainly don't mind questions, I'm just glad to have some sort of supportive community.

And sorry that my posts are like short stories Haha. I'm a writer by trade.

Hold on...
 

ADR x 2,

First, welcome to this site. Second, glad you came on here, because you can learn a lot on here.
You are young, but that doesn't mean you are not a candidate for surgery.
Most people get ADR or fusion surgery because they have a nerve/disc problem that will not get any better and could be harmful to their health or they have intractable pain which is not getting any better after what they call conservative care.

After having two lumbar ADRs, I am a cervie now. I hurt my neck in 1986 when I was in a near-fatal car accident. I had intermittent numbness in my arms from that point on and neck tightness/pain off and on. Twenty-six years later, I started feeling hand pain, which has progressed to arm pain on both arms and other symptoms. I am in intractable pain, now. I wake up in pain, I go to sleep in pain. I am on heavy doses of pain meds right now.
I did not start that way.
When I had an appointment in November with a hand doc because my hands hurt and had an EMG, that showed C six and seven nerves being compressed, I started reading up on the cervical spine to learn what I didn't already know. The hand surgeon told me to get an MRI right away after he sent me to get cervical x-rays and looked at my cervical spine. He told me not to wait.

So I called up my neurosurgeon (office), who I had seen less than two months before when he released me from lumbar care, and told him what was up. Got the MRI, and it showed a whole boat load of disc osteophytes (bone spurs) and foraminal and central canal stenosis (narrowing) at C5/6 and C6/7 primarily.
Since I am versed a bit in back lore, before I got the MRI report, I got the disc, put it into the computer and read it as best I could. I did some studying to figure what was what and I have a medical background so that wasn't that hard. I could see the osteophytes and then I went to my pain doc (who had the radiology written report). The PA took one look at it and said, "Looks like doc is going to have to decompress your back as soon as possible".
WHoah...wait a minute. Soon after, had appointment with my neurosurgeon and he suggested I do conservative measures first like PT, ESIs and medication. From the reading, most cervical herniations can be resolved without surgery. Most resolve with conservative, non-surgical care like PT, traction, and medicines.

Now, I went to PT, I had two ESIs and had different medications to help and then I had home traction. When simple exercises and the traction, caused pain and increased numbness, several times although we adjusted what I did, and such, my PT wrote a letter to my neurosurgeon, telling him I needed surgery. PT and all the above did not work. This was over months.

ADR x 2, You don't want to do surgery unless it is totally necessary. You should give the conservative care route a whirl until you have exhausted all means.

I have had surgery, but it is not something to be taken lightly or entered into when you have other options. It may be that you will need surgery, IMHO, first you should get more than two surgical opinions about what you should do.

I can give you examples when I was first starting out on this road of spinal problems in 2007. I got multiple opinions. I went to a physical rehab doc who did facet and epidural injections, did a discogram, ordered PT, the works. He then wanted to do IDET, but he couldn't do it. He would have to refer me out. So I asked my physical therapists, they hadn't had a patient do IDET for some time. Then I asked my neurosurgeon, who I picked for my doctor after getting five to six other surgical opinions, and he said they didn't do it anymore because the treatment was so restrictive and painful and it wasn't getting results.
That is just one example of how if I had that treatment, I may have ended up in worse pain and probably not gotten the desired result.
My PTs, one of whom I had actually known before getting PT, knew what the good surgeons were, the excellent surgeons and the so-so surgeons, ones that they would not want to get treatment from.

ADR trials or other devices/treatments may look tempting, but you have to know what you are getting yourself in for. It may or may not be what would benefit you. The most important thing is to get a surgeon whom you trust, has a very good reputation and can do different surgeries. And you need to research and talk to people that have had good results and some who have had bad outcomes.

IMHO, do not rush into anything unless you have a case that is an emergency. IMHO, be real careful about your health care and advocate for yourself. Also, just because your mother did not have an optimal outcome, does not mean you won't. We are here to help, pick our brains.

Good luck and again, welcome.

Kimmers:beer:

Kimmers,

Thanks for your advice. My fear of course is that it will get to the point that I won't be a good candidate for ADR. I have since decided to take all of your advice and continue on the conservative route for now. I think I'm going to try prolotherapy soon on top of my physical therapy. We are just going to start trying traction next visit (tomorrow), so I am excited (at least as excited as one could be about this stuff) about that.

I'm trying to keep in mind the disc is otherwise healthy, just not where it's supposed to be. The human body is designed to heal.

It's amazing what car accidents will do. Mine wasn't anything like near fatal like yours, it we caught another car going about 50, but no blood or anything.

ADR x 2,

You are welcome.
Almost all the surgeons will recommend conservative therapy first if they think it will help or there is no emergent issue.
Or if they are any good.
I know you are worried about getting worse and then not being a candidate for ADR, but IMHO, you should concentrate on seeing if you might get better and avoid surgery all together.
I was just speaking to a lady the other day who told me she had a big, large herniated lumbar disc recently. She was going to schedule surgery and then after eight months of therapy, her body reabsorbed the herniation. Wow. She still might need surgery in the future but for now she dodged a surgery.

You will most likely have a different timeline but most cervical people get better with conservative therapy. Now there is all kinds of controversy with any of the therapies, including the surgery, but you are not going to avoid that. If you fail the therapies, then you at least know you tried just about everything to avoid surgery.
I don't know when your mom had surgery, but in the past 10 years or so, fusion surgeries have become more successful. Any surgery is a risk and there are some people who end up worse off. That is the gamble.
I don't care how minor a surgery is, there are risks.

Traction isn't that bad. They had an automated machine at my PT's place, and then I tried home traction, which was okay. My problem is that the traction made me worse, most likely because I have bone spurs and the PT thought they were rubbing against the nerves with traction.

Hey, I also get the idea of missing working out. I am a runner, was a runner, always will be a runner and I miss it. If you can and your doctor recommends it, walk. It is not running but it is something.

Here's hoping that the herniation goes away,

Kimmers (BTW, I am a writer too. I did that before I went back to school for nursing. Hang in there.):wiggle:

Well, first ortho said go do whatever and I realized he was crazy so I got a second opinion, who told me he isn't gonna tell me not to do anything but that at the same time I'm obviously having some symptoms and sent me to PT. The therapist is much more serious on what I should/shouldn't be doing. He hasn't cleared me to run but said not to rule it out long-term yet. I think they have a better grasp on my symptoms because they have actually felt the tight painful muscles and such from the bulge impinging nerves. If PT doesn't work I will probably try ozone therapy.

I would take a gamble on surgery if it was definitely that versus never being cleared for sport again, regardless if I was OK to work with pain management. Probably. I'm okay with giving up running if I can take up biking and modifying my weight lifting, but life without any competitive sport or fitness I can't imagine.

About being a writer, I love it, I'm in PR, but I hope to get into journalism some day. Less time sitting in an office.

Take my word for it, but being in pain for a long time is no fun.
It isn't just about working out; it is about going to the movies, having fun, doing things people take for granted.
It is tiring and I feel older than I look.
Sounds like you are in a good physical therapy program and hopefully, it will work. Think positive.
Nice to meet a fellow writer. I was a newspaper reporter, specializing in sports. I left my writing jobs to go back to school and become a nurse. Now, I write for me, but I do a lot of writing. I always wanted to combine both my careers, but for now, I still write, but more to help people and occupy my mind.
Currently, not working on my novel or my planned books, at least they will be completed in the future, hopefully, as my hands and fingers and even tonight, my elbows hurt. I read a lot, too. One of my favorite authors is James Patterson, but I also read a lot of other books written by different authors.

As I said, Hang in there.

K

Hi,

Sorry you have to be here. I find your story interesting, because my c6/7 symptoms also started a couple of days after a personal bench press-record. It just took me 6 years to diagnose myself (I quess I was misfortunate with my choice of doctors) and prompt a cervical MRI. I think it what mislead the doc`s were the negative nerve conductive studies (ENMG). I later found out that a negative result from ENMG is not reliable enough to exclude nerve root pathology. By the time of the final diagnosis I could not work not to mention any physical activities.

Since I had a broadbased bulge with bilateral tear, I was told I was not a candidate for minimally invasive endoscopic foraminotomy. My choice was between a cage fusion and ADR. If you end up going with surgery, I also recommend you to look into minimally invasive things first. However I would get multiple opinions before choosing the type of procedure.

Fusion is a quite successful surgery. In Finland they have good results with peek stand alone cages with spikes or serration. I know a few people with a single level fusion and no problems. In the US the fusion methods tend to be more traditional, but also quite successful. I would not worry about making a fast decision to avoid losing the ADR option. The odds for that are small and single level fusion is still a viable option.

I know it is difficult not to fall into depression (I did). Try to accept the fact you cannot do the things you like now, but believe you will some day. I know it`s easier said than done.

Yes it is definitely hard to not get discouraged. I am naturally very worried for my future. It feels like I have lost my youth since I got discouraged about my recovery. I have since found a wonderful young lady, however I am having trouble pursuing a relationship because it feels like I will be out of commission for normal activities in the future if I can't get this fixed. It is very frustrating feeling like you will drag others down.

I am working on being more positive. My parents are trying to get me to see a psychologist but I can't afford it on top of trying to solve the disc issue.

About reading, I love Stephen King novels. I just finished Desperation. How did you like writing for a newspaper? The problem is that nowadays there's so little money in it unless you write for a major publication, and I can't afford a drastic salary cut.

Simeoni -- I think benching puts a lot of pressure on the cervical spine if you are doing a lot of weight. If I can ever get back to the gym I am forever done with anything where I lift weights over my head. After the bench I did military presses, so that probably sealed the deal if the benching didn't.

I can totally relate to you. Since my symptoms started, I fell in love with my wife, got married and became a father. All of this happened while I had daily pain with no clear diagnosis. At that point I was still able to lead a somewhat normal life. I had a constant worry of what future will bring and how I will clear being a husband and a dad. But I tried to go on living as normal. Now I can say it was the best choice I could make.

I came down a long way from being a young athletic young man. In the final acute phase I started a process to go to psychotherapy, but realized that I could not handle it neither economically nor mentally on top of my pain and process for finding out about the best solution. I figure therapy can help a lot with a good therapist. But it is a long process and can be quite heavy in the beginning.

I think a good friend or relative that can actually LISTEN to you can be as beneficial. Unfortunately there are not too many such people.

I'm glad to hear you are happily married. Yes its difficult. This going to come off wrong (cocky), but I've never really had any problems before of thinking anyone was too good for me or anything like that. Its the worst feeling.

Anyway, yes I've got a couple people. Other people ill accidentally find myself talking about it and they just dont get it. But you cant get it until it happens. Ive watched my mother have these problems and only now do I understand at all. I don't really want to see a professional but sometimes it feels like they're right.

PT is going okay. I don't really expect it to make any difference for me. It certainly hasn't yet.

QUOTE=ADRADR;99726]Yes it is definitely hard to not get discouraged. I am naturally very worried for my future. It feels like I have lost my youth since I got discouraged about my recovery. I have since found a wonderful young lady, however I am having trouble pursuing a relationship because it feels like I will be out of commission for normal activities in the future if I can't get this fixed. It is very frustrating feeling like you will drag others down.

I am working on being more positive. My parents are trying to get me to see a psychologist but I can't afford it on top of trying to solve the disc issue.

About reading, I love Stephen King novels. I just finished Desperation. How did you like writing for a newspaper? The problem is that nowadays there's so little money in it unless you write for a major publication, and I can't afford a drastic salary cut. [/QUOTE]

ADR x 2,

It is easy to be discouraged but you just have to take one day at a time. In my case, it was a process and I had a lot of good days. That was before the lumbar surgeries, but I was always recovering from one procedure to another procedure. With the cervical spine problems, I have only had two ESIs and an MRI and a CT. The cervical spine problems are supposed to move slowly, but in my case it was a quick progression after the obvious symptoms. But a new study recently came out that indicated most cases are a slow progression with long, stable periods. Most cervical problems resolve, with only 5 percent resulting in surgery.
PT might work so give that your best shot.

Try not to think of it as your lost youth. I have "lost" almost six years but when I lamented to my children that I wish I was working during this time, my kids told me they were glad to have me at home. So I lost one thing and gained another.
What do they say? Adversity builds character.

I wouldn't put your life on hold. Sure pain might limit you but you shouldn't let it control you. (Easier said than done, I know.)
As for a psychologist, I started to go to one when I ended up in pain again a couple years ago, she has been helpful. It is good to talk to people who understand what you are going through. I got her name from a person who used to be on here this doctor specializes in chronic pain patients. But she is also a couples counselor among other things.
If you need to speak to someone face to face, maybe your parents will help you pay for it.

I haven't read much Stephen King, but I have read a lot about him as an author. I try to read different genres. I even read my daughter's young adult fantasy/sci fi books including the vampire ones. I really like murder mysteries and like Mary Higgins Clark and spy novels, like John le Carre's and Robert Ludlum's books. After watching the Pillars of the Earth, an HBO series, I got that authors books. Haven't tackled those yet.
My one page novel I started working on is a serial killer mystery.
As for newspapers, I did freelance, this was before I became more assertive and back then, there was a hiring freeze for three years. I decided to change careers then. I think it would have been easier if I had been a guy, because there was definitely a glass ceiling for me. And I wasn't making much money although I did win journalism awards.

Life changes. At one point, I wanted to work for Sports Illustrated, that would have been my dream job, but that was not practical after I had children. I kind of like it when, say at a party, there are guys talking sports and I jump in. I sure do get some stares. I follow all sports, but am a semi-expert in track and field and all aspects of running. Been to a couple Olympics, World Championships, several national championships and a lot of meets, from youth to beyond.
I am the one in my household watching football or March Madness. I just saw that the 2014 NCAA Basketball Regionals are going to be close by, so that is a goal to be healthy and go to those with my son as my daughter, who is thankfully, an NHL hockey fan, does not like basketball. Bummer.

So you never know why things happen. God's plan? I choose to believe that. Just concentrate on that light at the end of the tunnel.

Kimmers

I thought I had torn a muscle in my back and for at least 2 years and just dealt with it. Couldn't take it anymore and went to doc who informed me it was my neck. Testing and physical therapy followed with recommendations of fusion. I talked to one doc who told me fusion was my only option and I responded with the Germans had been doing ADR for 10 years and it didn't make sense to fuse because it would destroy the discs upper and lower. He informed me that if I was so smart I should come up with my own way to deal with it. He told me "you'll be back" and now its time. Ive been a M6C fan for a long time but the freedom CD looks intriguing to me. What kind of stuff have you fond on this disc?Product Information | AxioMed Spine Corporation It looks stiffer for better movement and a solid platform to bond to.

I discussed the Freedom Cervical and the Activ-C with Clavel when I was in Spain last month. This was my take away from that very brief discussion:

The Activ-C was shelved for a while for redesign. Whatever issues they had with the device may now be resolved and development is moving forward again. I do not know if there has even been any implants done (maybe?). Not being considered at this time.

The Freedom Cervical "looks promising" but there have been so few implantations of the device (I think less than 50 total - feel free to check my reference). He wants to see widespread success with the device before investigating for use with his patients.