Well, I"m going to try water therapy at my gym's pool if I don't get locked up when they see me. I've got the waist belt, and ordered the hand "webs" and leg floats. Hopefully I'll be able to "run" in water for an aerobic workout since everything else re: aerobics hurts me and I got nuts w/o this release.

Anyone ever use these devices to "run" in water for aerobics? Success?

http://www.hydrofit.com/catalog.html

Happy New Year.

ans

Alan, I received a protruding disc (L1-L2) for Christmas, so I started water walking today. I used one of the belts in the link and it was simple & effective.

I've been doing stretching, a zillion pull-ups and will continue with the waterwalking...I like it!

I'm sorry you've got more disc problems. (How?).

Do you find that you can get an aerobic workout by waterwalking. I ordered the mitts on the website that I hope will cause enough resistance. Anything's better than nothing but I wonder if running on water (even with leg floats) can cause too much spinal loading.

Good luck Harrison and Happy Holidays. Many pull-ups for an older fella like yourself is quite an accomplishment. http://adrsupport.org/groupee_common...icon_smile.gif

Allan,

Water therapy has been fantastic for me. I always feel better afterwards. The water's soothing properties and floatless environment are ideal for P.T. I can't run in the water, but I can walk. The pool that I go to has jets that they turn on to give me extra resistance that I walk against.

Highly recommended.

Dan

ans,
I see that you are in LA. Are you familiar with a gym on National near Motor Ave? I think the name is Complete PT. There is a woman there who heads the water therapy program, Linda Huey. She sells all sorts of hydrotherapy equipment. I used to go there for P.T. They specialise in the water therapy exercises.

After I finished my P.T. there I bought a belt and weights and used them during the summer in the pool where I live. Now that it is cold this stuff is a bit cumbersome to take to a gym. I belong to Bally's and their pool is only 4 ft. which is not deep enough to use the belt.

Complete PT gives classes using the belts. You may enjoy trying it. The gym is very nice, the pool very warm and they have a great Jacuzzi.

I loved the exercises in the water, running/power walking and it did help quite a bit.

After the workout it helps to put weights on your ankles, use a couple of the noodles to hold you up and just dangle for a while. The weights pulling on your legs, while the noodles hold you up gives you temporary pain relief by stretching you and in my case taking the pressure off of the nerve.

Let me know how you do.

PS-Are you a patient of Dr. Lauryssen? I saw him to get into the trial for the Charite and Kineflex. It all depends on if my insurance will pay for the disk.

Best wishes,

ans,
Complete PT has all of the equipment there. You could get a prescription from your doctor and go there for water therapy or pay $15.00 for a class. They show you how to do some very good workouts.

Dan-where do you go in LA for water workouts?
I had gone for awhile in Beverly Hills to a physical therapy place where I walked in a tank and they put jets on to increase resistance. That also was very good. I should get back to doing that. Thanks for the reminders!

Freshfig,

I go to Healthsouth physical therapy at The Howard Hughes Center in Westchester, CA.

Allan,
All you need is a 'swamp thing' or 'lagoon creature' mask and you'll get the pool all to yourself. I hope it works out for you.

Jim

Freshfig, this place looks great: http://lahuey.com/pages/cpt.html

Fresh, I used to belong to Bally's and my gym's pool is only 4.5 feet at most. Do you think it's possible to get a safe aerobic workout by wearing a waist-float and using hand "wings" to slow down as one "runs" from A to B? (Using leg floats to dampen the impact). Even with this I'm leery of using a pool this shallow to water therapy. Am I right? The check'll be in the mail. (Any stroke maims me for days later).

I called about prices cuz insurance won't pay much re: PT. (Maybe long-term private rates?).

Just found out that the City Of West Hollywood's pool is 9' deep in a spot. Now that seems great if my instincts are correct that swimming/treading water in place is a good aerobic workout (Maria mentioned this somewhere that she was advised of this).

I saw Dr. L. several years ago but shifted to Regan b/c he wasn't doing ADRs then. I liked him, thought he was extremely bright, and he took the time to actually answer questions.

So thanks all for your advice - esp. you Jim. http://adrsupport.org/groupee_common...icon_smile.gif

And Dan, feel better or this old man will whup you.

Allan

PS Sounds like an LA get-together could happen again.

Allan,
4.5 ft. will not do it. I use the pool where I live and I have tried at all different depths. I don't know how tall you are but you probably need at least 6 ft. Thats why Bally's doesn't work for me. Yes Complete PT (thanks for the site)is really nice! I loved it but they eventually told me that my time was up. It all depends on the insurance coverage. I would go back in a second, and may do that except right now my hand is in a cast, torn ligament repair, from when I fell several years ago.

If you can get there it may be worth a trip just to see what is offered and how all of the equipment is used. They use Linda Huey's equipment there and it is all top of the line.

When you're running in the pool you stay in essentially one place. You can kind of power walk and then you're using your arms and legs. Leg weights make the workout even better but if you have low back problems then the weights will just make things worse.

Yes Dr. L is very nice. He is doing the Charite vs. Kineflex trial. I don't know hom many AR's he has done.

Keep me posted on your pool adventures!

Fresh,

I'm afraid that you're right and you should know. I know my insurance sucks and doubt (but will try) for Complete PT to work out a deal with me. All I need to do is jump in the pool and be left alone. It's amazing: I've been calling different health clubs in LA and nobody seems to have a pool that's 6' deep. So if not your suggestion, maybe gypsy public swimming pools (gee I feel so safe with a chintzy padlock).

That's some terrible damage from slipping/falling on ice cream. http://adrsupport.org/groupee_common...icon_frown.gif

Be well, ans

For years I lived a half block away from an Olympic Pool and swam there 3-5x/week. When it came to using the floatation jacket and equip, I was advised that I should do this in the deep end of the pool, preferably in 9'water and deeper..

Wouldn't swimming laps make all this easy?

I guess the trick is once you get the flotation device, what type of exercise can one do without hurting their backs yet getting good aerobics. Again, maybe an idea is to use water-floats and to use arms to tread water - then work lower body later outside the pool. Or, maybe if lucky, one could use float and tread water (how many hours would an aerobic workout take this way?). Best but potentially dangerous it seems if in 9' of water and to tread water w/o anything - using arms and legs. Seems too easy w/o some kinda catch - namely terrible delayed-onset back pain.

Advice appreciated. This is quite a conundrum!

Thanks, Allan

ans-
you can get a great workout in the water with the belt. The belt supports and takes all of the pressure off of your back so you can move your legs and arms without hurting your back.

You should try the belts at Complete PT before breaking in your other one. I think hers are the best. I paid $80.00 for mine but worth it. She sells them from her house in Santa Monica.

Complete PT is the best or 24 Hour Fitness has a pool and I think it is 6' deep. That would work for me and maybe for you if you're under 7'. You can get a free one week trial membership there.

I've attached something about Dr. L. that you may be interested in reading. It confirms our thoughts about him.

Yes, the ice cream slip/fall has done a great deal of destruction to me. I fell in the hospital lobby at UCLA. It's a dangerous place!

This Thanksgiving, the Weekly shares the inspirational stories of two thankful individuals who are rooted in Beverly Hills. They share with us the love and encouragement they've received from those who have helped them overcome some of the most difficult times in their lives.

HEALING THROUGH LAUGHTER

One night while getting ready for bed, legendary comedienne Phyllis Diller said she had a "brain freeze." In what some may perceive as a joke, this was no laughing matter. Everything stopped, her body went limp and she fell, hitting her head on a nightstand. The next thing she knew she was unconscious.

After a housekeeper found Phyllis and called 911, she was immediately transported to UCLA Medical Center. X-rays showed her top two vertebrae broken. If the bones were not carefully and properly fixed, it could have easily led to complete paralysis.

"I couldn't tell you a thing about it, my son was in charge of all that, but at one hospital, they had no one to operate and I just lay there for two days and I really don't know what happened," remembered Phyllis, who was unconscious for much of her 13-day stay in the hospital.

After UCLA, she was then transferred to Olympia Medical Center in Los Angeles where she was treated by the world-renowned spine surgeon and Beverly Hills resident Carl Lauryssen, M.D., who she was referred to by a friend who had a tumor removed from her spine by the doctor.

"Dr.Lauryssen realizes that you're just not a piece of meat and that you're a human being with emotions, feelings, fears and he treats you in that way-- in a caring manner," Phyllis said. "There isn't a cold bone in his body. He's a warm human being. Right away, you trust him because of his attitude. Without knowing his very interesting background, I just fell in love with him and trusted him. God knows he was the right doctor for me."

During the operation, which involved motion preservation and minimal invasion, Phyllis' heart stopped several times, but despite it all, it just wasn't her time to go. Her pacemaker started up her heart each time and kept it beating.

"As a neurosurgeon, we deal with fairly complex and high-risk situations. A millimeter can make a difference-- a stroke one way or another way could leave someone completely paralyzed," Lauryssen said. "It's stressful; you don't want to be known as the doctor that was responsible for her having a bad outcome. There's certain things in life that you can't control, but there was a certain drive in all of us. She's a fighter and she had so much to give so it wasn't her time to go."

At 88-years-old, Phyllis faced several challenges during her operation. Things were very "touch and go," she said.

"She is exceedingly frail from a surgical point-of-view," said Laureyssen, who has also been the neurosurgeon for the St. Louis Rams football team for 10 years now. "She's very skinny and fragile. Obviously, she's not young anymore. Because of her age, she has an element of mild heart disease. When you stress a heart at her age, it can be pushed over the edge."

Throughout the hospital stay, flowers poured into her hospital room, leaving the room overflowing with orchids, roses, you name it. Well-wishers included celebrities such as Delores Hope, Reba McIntyre, Debbie Reynolds, and fellow comedians Red Buttons and Roseanne Barr, and Phyllis' beau, Bruce Nelson.

"You should have seen the flowers. It was like somebody had died," Phyllis said. "I was totally covered with flowers. That made me feel lovely. I'm just crazy about flowers and I felt like a queen. It all helped."

After having to wear a neck brace for two months, Phyllis has now fully-recovered and is able to continue with her busy, eventful life.

"I'm very grateful she did as well as she did," Laureyssen said. "By three months you can see how someone's healed on a CAT scan. She's healed faster than someone a third her age."

Although she retired from stand-up and traveling in 2002, her art career and continuous flow of events keep her terribly busy. In one day last week she had voice-over work at a studio for the film "Shrek 3" as Casper the Friendly Ghost, an event for the producer of the musical called "Menopause: The Musical" and a dinner-date with friends.

"You see, I've got a life going," Phyllis said. "My career just keeps going along. It's absolutely wonderful. This has left me with nothing but a stiff neck. In other words, I can't twist my head like an owl. I have some mobility and I'm very grateful for it and I lead a very, very active life. So I would say it's a second chance [in life]."

At her age, Phyllis' only plans are to get up every morning.

"That's a big deal," she said lightly.

This Thanksgiving, she is thankful for Dr. Lauryssen and having at least 12 members of her extended family, including four grandsons, in attendance for Thanksgiving dinner.

"I'm very thankful, I have so much to be thankful for, especially for Dr. Laurysson," Phyllis said. "I mean, he literally saved my life and gave me a whole new life back."

Hi Fresh,

I checked and think that 24-Hour Fitness' pools are 3-4.5' at most; maybe and I hope that I'm wrong. I know the one in West Hollywood's shallow.

That's a great story about Dr. L. I didnt' know that he was a sports team neurosurgeon. I'm so old that I thought that he was a newly minted doc who passed his residency. http://adrsupport.org/groupee_common...icon_frown.gif

I wonder who trained him in ADRs. Regan or Bray when he was with Cedars?

Thanks for the information.

Best, Allan

So Dr.L does ADRs? Who has had this surgery with him? How old is he (like that matters, just wondering because of what ans stated)...

Maria,
Here is the info on Dr. L. He is doing the clinical trial for Charite v. Kineflex.

Name of center: Tower Orthopaedic and Neurosurgical Spine Institute
Primary investigator: Carl Lauryssen, MD
Location: 8670 Wilshire Blvd., Suite 202
Beverly Hills, CA 90211
Coordinator contact: Manuel Hernandez
Phone number: 310-855-0751, ext. 2109
Fax number: 310-657-6342
Email: Manny.hernandez@olympiamc.com
Website: www.towerorthopaedics.com, www.thespinaldoctor.com

Fresh posted before me; I'd call to see how many ADR's he's had. Someone told me that Bray taught him but this is second-hand.

Also, he's been a doctor for 21 years.

ans,
Please let me know how many he has done. I saw him several weeks ago. He was the one who ordered the CT that showed that my L-5 is starting to fuse. I didn't ask how many ADR's he has done but I wanted to.
Thanks!

I have learned a bunch by all of your posts. Makes me want to try water PT. - The only problem here where I live i sthat all of the pools are freezing cold! My back cannot get in water that is that cold...

bb,
don't they have indoor pools in Boise? In the complex where I live in LA. we have a heated pool but they turn the heat off in the winter. I looked at wet suits because there are many days here in the winter that are in the 70's. I did buy a kind of surfing shirt and shorts that are suuposed to keep you warm in the water but I have decided that I would probaly need a full wet suit, even then the water may be too cold for me.

The one place that I recommended, Complete PT, keeps their water so warm it is a splendid place to be for water exercise.

I hope you can find a warm indoor pool. One place that I went for PT had two water joggers, which is a treadmill in a warm water tank. That was wonderful! The tanks have jets that they can turn on so you are walking against resistance. You get a great core workout.This was in Beverly Hills and several of the patients were getting these tanks installed in their homes for about $50,000. Must be nice!

Best wishes and keep warm!

They have indoor pools here!
The temperature on most pools at the gyms here is in the range of 69 - 74* degreesF, so in saying that maybe my back just cannot handle the temps under 77 - 80*

I have not had the luxury of having the insurance cover a great PT facility and am in consistant battle with them to get even 2nd rate PT.
(That is another show)

I have heard about these places locally that have warm water PT and water exersizing going on but have not made it there yet. Thus, I rely on local gyms and their pools are just cold to me.

In the mean time I am saving for that 50k!!

For the past 20 years I have taught Adaptive Aquatics to individuals with disabilities. (Now I find myself my most important student). There are many resources and aids that you can use to increase resistance and add to your workout. I am a fan of the hand weights and belts that can be used in deep water for so many different activities, running, treading water, core exercises etc.

The recommended temperature for aquatic therapy is 92 degrees if your pool is cooler then that you may want to ware a wetsuit or skin suit, keep moving and try not to exceed more then 20-30 minutes. With your body temp at 98.5 you quickly drop your core temp and this can be more detrimental then beneficial.

Here are a few articles I ran across for your reading pleasure. Hydrotherapy and Aquatic Therapy

I work at a pool in Northern Nevada that has 4 indoor pools, a therapy pool 92 degrees, kids pool, lap pool with a high and low dive and 2 fully enclosed water slides. This is definitely water therapy at its finest. http://adrsupport.org/groupee_common...icon_smile.gif

Thanks Paulette for the links; very helpful. http://adrsupport.org/groupee_common...icon_smile.gif

Fresh, I haven't asked but can; he's not a BC provider anymore.

Allan

Paulette-great info about water therapy!. Do you currently work at that pool now? If you do that is the perfect situation for you after surgery, and for all of us. Can we get some passes?

ans-that's OK I called his office today and am waiting for a call back.

I wish that was me at the Santa Monica Stairs! That's my favorite place in this area. "Do you do the stairs?" I was up to 8 circles down the concrete and up the wood. My goal is to get back there. Madonna? I wouldn't be surprised to see her there, pulling up in her limo, hopping out with her security and trainer. Maybe not,isn't she is still recuperating from her horse injury?

bb-I'm with you about the pools being too cold. I like the temps. at 92 degrees as Paulette mentioned. Maybe you could go to one of these warm water pools and pay for a class?
Happy New Year!

Fresh,

Hi. About that aquatic exercise/PT place discussed earlier, do you think they could work out a deal in which I'd only swim there (waiting for call back).

I was never so hot on those steps - bad knees and inability to go up/down 8 times. But I'd be happy walking it.

Love the area; used to live on Muscle Beach in the '70s when uh young.

*It's raining!*.

Be well, ans

ans,
The pool at Complete PT is not really a swimming pool, I should say not a pool for swimming laps. They offer a lot of classes which is what I would suggest you try one just to see what the place is all about. They charge $15.00 for a class.

Have you called them and asked them if they accept your insurance? If they do then you can get the therapy immediately at no charge. You could even take a ride over there, they have brochures of everything they offer. I think a chiropractor owns the gym itself and Linda Huey does the aquatic program.

They also have a wonderful Jacuzzi. Let me know what you decide to do.

If you join the gym then you can use the pool anytime. I think the membership fee is comparable to Sports CLub LA.

Fresh,

Thanks for the info. I guess all I need is a good deep end, say 9' or so where I can tread/swim-in-place (wow, not). My insurance sucks so much would be out-of-pocket.

Hope you had a good New Year's despite needing surgery. Hold on for the rains tonight.

Allan

Allan,

This may show how much of a "country bumpkin" I am, but have you tried lakes, resevoirs, or hot springs? The former tend to be well over 9 feet deep just by their very nature, while the latter often have fairly elaborate therapy pools, depending on the locale. If these don't work, would the ocean be an option? If you wanted to try a calm ocean setting but lived in a cooler climate, perhaps a thick, well-fitted wetsuit would be an option since it would provide both warmth AND flotation, allowing you to just jump in and run in place, so to speak. Needless to say, the typical "surfing beach" wouldn't be a good idea.

I've got to admit that warm water can really helps. I swam laps at a local hot-spring last week (pool temps around 95 degrees F), and my back felt about as good as it had in months - even after 3 miles! There's a good guide to public hotspring in the northwest and southwestern US - could find links if you'd like.

Laura,

I live amidst concrete, iron, and a carcinogenic (but fun to body surf) ocean. http://adrsupport.org/groupee_common...icon_smile.gif I'm too far for a hot springs but thanks anyways. Btw, swimming three miles anytime is great and in 95 deg. F. that's amazing. Strange, with your terrible back pain, you can handle swimming - something that does me in.

My best, Allan

When I was swimming laps, 95 degrees would have been too hot for me even tho my back might have liked it. Had to have warm water tho more tepid than that warm or I got exhausted feeling~ I'm afraid of lakes... natural places in terms of not knowing where the bottom is..