Rob Wilson, here on ADR Support, also goes to Hauser. As a strong suggestion, carefully plan any travel the day of your injections. We're cheap and generally take the bus and train back to a hotel near the airport and the stop-start bus motion is enough to really get irritated tissues really fired up. Laura has once flown home the same day as her treatment and survived but wasn't happy about doing it a second time. Rob, on the other hand, seems to have impressed everyone at Caring Medical with how much he gets done per trip and the fact that he flies home the same day.

Quick Question
 

Dave,

Hope you are finding value and decisive info that helps you heal (we are lucky to have caring people here, some for many years). Can you tell us more about your your diet? What natural supplements? NSAIDS?

On a related note, some people here have radically reduced their pain by changing their diet, juicing and more:

http://www.adrsupport.org/forums/f60...-ulcers-10655/

I can relate to this notion, for other reasons, detailed elsewhere.

Dave, what's the plan for March and April?

Thanks for the diet thread link. Nothing unusual in the diet habits. Take MDR brand multivitamins. Always trying to keep salt, sugar, caffeine, alcohol intake to a minimum and veggies/water intake at a higher level, but I'm not a saint. When being good my weight is 180 lbs (right now). When not so good it's 195. Never been on NSAIDS since the 86 surgery. Always been a jock type and I always feel better when I can get the heart rate up. Swimming has been my go-to aerobic activity and I can generally keep up with guys who compete at the masters level (when the back is cooperating for flip turns), at least for being 53. Still dream about being able to kiteboard again..........

Current plans:seeing an orthopedic surgeon in Norfolk on Monday to review current status, MRI's, x-rays, and just talk. See what he thinks about getting a discogram. I'd like to at least gather the info required to send to Boeree and Clavel for their opinion.

Giving the last prolo treatment (I got it 6 weeks ago) more time to progress. I am improving slowly so we'll see how it goes.

The two right side lumbar prolo treatments I got last fall actually set me back. Not positive why but it might have created a mechanical imbalance. Normally Ross (Hauser) does a full lumber treatment including both sides from the L2-3 all the way down the butt, but I requested right side treatments last fall since that is where the weakness/pain was. Maybe a mistake since I think it can create a mechanical imbalance as the lagiment/tendon thightening is only on one side. Just a guess. Anyway he agreed that we try another treatment to both sides with a slightly different solution.

Also at the 6 week post treatment point he put me on a extremely mild oral steriod for 30 days to try and calm any residual nerve irritation down. (Be aware that for prolo healing to work you normally avoid all anti-inflamitories and steriods. He only presribed this after the primary healling period was over, and only at a very low dosage).

For what it's worth. I drive 2 hours, then fly 2 hours to Chicago, then get poked, and return home the same day. Your first time is scary, after that no biggie, but tiring. Beleive me, nothing like going to Europe for major surgery.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g2...a-dave/182.jpg

hi
 

hey Dave, do you think the mechanical imbalance is actually a risk of prolotherapy? as per my understanding, the treatment gets your joints strong. but does it make it look bigger? i have seen before and after treatments on skeletons and the skeletons do look bigger. if that is a source of worry down the line who knows. did you get a diagnosic facet injections to rule out that you don't have any facet issues? i think that would be a great step prior to getting any sort of ADR put in your body...

raj

Haven't gotten facet injections or a discogram so I will discuss the possibility of getting both with the surgeon.

The only reason I mentioned a mechanical imbalance is because I had Hauser do 2 treament sessions strictly on the right side of my back. He normally does both sides, hence my own "interperation" of balanced versus imbalanced. whether it has anything to do with my current issues is just a crazy guess.

Prolo has nothing to do with altering bone structure. It is about making the ligaments and tendons that link the vertebrae together, thicker and stronger. Ligaments/tendons will not show up on an X-ray or MRI. Early prolo studies on animals showed significant ligament strengthening via before/after biopsies. People tend to get preoccupied looking at what shows up on MRI's/x-rays and forget that there are massive bands of ligaments/tendons doing important mechanical work down there.

The reasoning goes that surgery weakens ligaments/tendons by leaving weaker scar tissue behind and the narrowing intervertebral spacing over time leads to ligament laxity. Prolo just strengthens and sort-of "shrinks" the ligaments/tendons to help reduce excessive relative motion that can develop between the vertebrae. In a way strengthening the ligaments/tendons that connect the vertebrae helps make up for weakened discs. Hauser explains it 1000X better than me in his book

Update:
Met with local Othopedic Surg. and got the reasonable standard response. L3-4 and 4-5 are degenerated but nothing crazy observed in the scans. Advised me to continue with conservative treatments until and/or if "I run out of options". He said he would be glad to help with a State side pre-op workup (discogram, etc) and post-op consultations if I ever decided to go the Euro ADR route. Nice to hear and it all seemed pretty logical.

Actually makin some slow progress since the last prolo treatment. Now doing a few wimpy pool laps (700 yds), a few miles on the cruiser bike, and the elliptical machines at the Y. Resisting the urge to up the anti too quickly, like flip turns and getting on the racing bike. All too familiar with the "overdoing it" syndrome as much as it feels great to get the heart rate up. Sure wish there were more lumbar prolo patients out there to compare notes with. If I keep improving I might go for one more prolo (both sides and same solution) and assume that the two one-sided treatments I got last fall were an inadvertent setback. One day at a time

Can't complain with makin it 25 years from my original surgery, mostly active and med free. Appreciate all the updates from the ADR pioneers posting on this forum, especially the long term updates. Just knowing there is a potential plan B helps the psyche

Update:Still improving with increased activity level so keeping the ADR option at bay for now. I stay current with the many posts on this site to try to relate it to my own condition. Since there are so few people who pursue prolotherapy compared to the typical non-surgical painkiller treatments it's hard to compare.

The surgery I had in 1986 involved removing large segments of l3-4 disc annulus and core (largest segment was almost 3 cm long from the surgical report) that had prolapsed right into the spinal canal causing severe nerve root pressure. I was told I would loose the nerve without surgery. Here I am 26 years later having been able to avoid any back related pain meds for the entire period, even though the back functionality/strength has obviously been curtailed.

Hard to understand how we all respond so differently to this dibilitating ailment. I sure don't claim to have any great skill in dealing with it, and have ups and downs like everyone here. Still might end up getting a 2 level ADR at some point but not there yet. I hope this thread encourages people to at least consider prolotherapy as a real option if only to delay ADR or improve recovery.

In the meantime I've even had a few mild windsurf and kiteboard sessions along with swimming, biking and boating. So we'll see how it goes from here. Good luck to all in dealing with this tough condition. I'll be sticking around.

Dave, thanks for your update. It's helpful and thoughtful. :wiggle: