In this
post, GMW makes some comments accusing a patient of giving dangerous medical advice. I copy that thread here for further discussion, and out of the patients storyline.
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I'm not going to make any friends here right now, but I am going to say this entire thread is out of line, and here is why:
1) when we voluntarily choose surgery, we do so with knowledge of possible risk, including death, when we agree to a procedure. This is why 4 percent of patients have failed ADR procedures: it happens;
2) When I read Job13's very first post, I thought to myself, based on my own experience, that she is not a candidate, as she didn't present with pain;
3) The thread then continues with a pseudo patient advocate rendering medical opinion. Is this person a medical doctor at the very least, and a neurosurgeon at best? I considered myself to be a well informed patient, and did ample research, but never lost sight of the fact I am not a medical doctor, and I have certainly heard plenty, of what I consider to be, armchair medical opinion and advice from laymen, especially here;
4) How many medical opinions did Job13 obtain from qualified ADR surgeons before surgery?
5) The post on page 5 outlining the economics of ADR surgery, as a probable cause and motive for other physicians "protecting one another" was completely out of line and inappropriate. This is a personal opinion and conclusion, and one that borders on slander. Innuendo like this will cause doctors to not be responsive to this website and Harrison's activities;
6) The post on page 6 lists medical "conclusions" rendered by a layman. I would like to know who came to the conclusions stated in bullet points 2, 3, 4 and 7. As for bullet point 5, how do you know what was going on with this surgeon? As a sideline comment regarding surgeon contact, what doctor communicates with patients by email? I would think most doctors would view this practice as reckless. I do think it is noble of Matt to help her, but to draw the conclusions he did, as an "amateur surgeon", is not helpful, and frankly, quite dangerous. In addition, I have always felt that the frequent "advice" relative to pain medication (not this thread) is not appropriate;
7) The comment about "not appreciating the diminishing of stated events", all users of this website agreed to the terms of use when they signed up;
8) Harrison has developed many relationships with medical professionals in order to supply the content he does. We all know that Job13 is not happy with her surgeon, nor her surgery. We all feel very badly for her, including me. However, to render medical opinions, and draw medical conclusions which may or may not be accurate are not appropriate.
Finally, I want to reiterate how badly I feel for Job13. I've been through this, although not to the extent she has, but I am reaching my 2 year anniversary for my Charite implant, and I still have daily pain, and probably will for the rest of my life. However, my daily 8 level of pain has gone to 2 to 5, which I consider, based on the pre-operative expectations established by my surgeon, well prior to surgery, to be a success.
If anything, this thread also reiterates the importance of seeking multiple opinions before surgery, learning as much possible FROM QUALIFIED MEDICAL DOCTORS, as well as garnering OPINIONS from surgical patients and other lay sources, before subjecting one's self to life threatening surgery. No surgery has a 100 percent guarantee. Job13 knew this and said so in her first post. We should learn from her situation, as it reiterates the potential risk of any operation. We should also ask ourselves what we could do in the future to avoid what happened to her.
If this website turns into a witch hunt for certain doctors, guess what?, those medical professionals who supply information to Harrison for the benefit of others, will no longer do that, and this site becomes worthless to any prospective ADR patients. Harrison has the right to decide what is appropriate for HIS website. Everyone knew that when they signed on. Let's remember that.
(edited for typos)
Years of sports and poor treatment;<BR>DDD plus herniation L5-S1;<BR>Provocative discography, myleogram;<BR>IDET December, 2004 (failure);<BR>More tests; Charite ADR 11/15/05;<BR>Male, 46, 6'0", 150 lbs.
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GMW: Thank you for your inputs and concerns. Hopefully I can clarify - without blowing my top.
Speaking on 'slander', do you remember who accused me of "fronting for some slip and fall law firm, on a commission basis?" ... and then someone congratulating you and shutting down the thread? ... and the one of with someone stating "Unlike Matt, I do not get a paycheck for any of this work!" and then shutting down the thread. Looks like a trend.
Regarding your comments
"1) when we voluntarily choose surgery, we do so with knowledge of possible risk, including death, when we agree to a procedure. This is why 4 percent of patients have failed ADR procedures: it happens;"
Agreed. That is why people should hear of the bad outcomes too. Four Percent? You have proven your bias. Technically, YOU have just given medical opinion, telling people they have a 96% chance of success - without reference. Why 96%? Because some 4th class Euro reports say so? I'm sorry, I only believe 1st class data, like the FDA trials - which state 53%. Even Synthes' own financial report says 64%. I wont throw innuendo at you. Here's
proof . YOU, IN FACT, HAVE GIVEN PEOPLE MISLEADING AND DANGEROUS GUIDANCE. Now your post will go on to slam a patient for giving medical advice, when she only told her story. Very impressive.
"2) When I read Job13's very first post, I thought to myself, based on my own experience, that she is not a candidate, as she didn't present with pain;"
Yes, she did not present with pain. She was off meds. She could walk several kilometers to see the Pope go by (only possible on foot). We several other forms of electronic proof. Dont ask me for it. This is for doctors only.
3. If your going to make accusations, be clear. Who gave what medical advice? Dont just 'spin' it. Dont think that discussing our situation is giving medical advice. Dont think that stating our opinion "I would not recommend ADR at X clinic" ... is giving medical advice.
4. Anastasia WAS a perfect candidate for ADR - in her original consultation (May 2005). Except, her conditions had changed drastically from the year before, Sep 2005 imagery. Naturally, because she had had a disectomy with abrasion at the Alphaklinik. In that span of time, one year, her disc had collapsed completely, and her facets gone bad. This is not my opinion. It is the statement of a very high level ADR surgeon.
5. Your quotation says that I said "protecting one another". That is a complete lie. That statement doesnt exist. People see that you are spinning things and trying to slime me. You are obviously TROLLING and attacking me specifically ... since you have never said anything on this thread before. According to site policy, you should be banned. I invite you to a private PM to discuss this further. If you disagree with any of the FACTS that I posted, please let me know. I will fix it if its not true.
6. Please tell us 'WHO' renders 'WHAT' medical conclusions by a layman? WHO ARE YOU TO CALL OUR DOCTORS LAYMEN! Guess what, we do not, by MEDICAL LAW, have to disclose our medical background, doctors, etc. We can, if we like, give our medical info - you take it as truth/lie or whatever. You are obviously attacking us, since you are not asking all the other people on this forum to cough up their doctors names, medical history etc.
Yet again, you have slandered me with "I do think it is noble of Matt to help her, but to draw the conclusions he did, as an "amateur surgeon", is not helpful, and frankly, quite dangerous." I never said anything on page 6. Please be more specific, in exactly what I said - before you slander me on these pages with such accusations. I will gladly forward your objections to our surgeons.
"In addition, I have always felt that the frequent "advice" relative to pain medication (not this thread) is not appropriate;" Again - if I made any 'advice' - please help me find it and delete it. If Anastasia states her reactions to stuff, well, that's her prerogative.
7. Thank you for your comments that relate to the actual recent turn of events on this thread - regarding the changing of peoples writings. Even though all users agreed to the 'terms', the 'terms' do not include unannounced editing of peoples words. It does state that threads or comments may be removed if inappropriate. I do not think her title was inappropriate - although not conforming to some obscure policy.
8. "However, to render medical opinions, and draw medical conclusions which may or may not be accurate are not appropriate."
Anastasia has never rendered medical opinions/conclusion of her own. You have yet again defamed her. Every bit of medical opinion we state comes straight from the mouth/email of a high level surgeon. For example, one VERY HIGH LEVEL surgeon from Munich stated "I would never put an ADR into such a degenerative level". No we arent going to tell you who said this. Its a private email. Clue: He works for a klinik which refuses to treat Americans - because Americans are so damned litigious. Funny, Anastasia is Russian. They still refused to treat her.
As you stated very well (really, I mean it), going from an 8 level of pain to a [2-5] is considered a success. In fact, if you look at the VAS/ODI charts, the typical patient goes from a 7.5 to a 4.5 ... which is considered a success. Funny thing is, those same charts show the Fusion Patients actually having LESS pain than the ADR patients at 6 months.
Your last two paragraphs are so leading it makes me sick.
Anastasia had multiple medical opinions FROM QUALIFIED MEDICAL DOCTORS months before her surgery ... and has many more medical opinions FROM QAULIFIED MEDICAL DOCTORS (thanks for the insinuation that she doesnt) stating that her PRE-OPERATIVE CONDITIONS CONTRAINDICATED ADR.
You insinuate that Anastasia is making a 'witch hunt' for certain doctors. I'm sorry, but you have not made the same comments against others who reported on their bad outcomes. You are obviously making a witch hunt against a patient who just had a disc ripped out her spine and barely survived - and had to tell her story. Good job.
Harrison, please delete GMW's comments on Anastasia's thread. I dont have time for a personal injury lawsuit.
Cheers,
Matt