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  #91  
Old 04-13-2015, 12:08 PM
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Cynlite Cynlite is offline
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Default ADR Costs I have so far

Thanks jss! It's not a completely apples to apples comparison anyway so, I added your information. I'll keep adding info to the spreadsheet if more is posted.

Hopefully, I got Cheryl's correct. I think she is getting two M6-C discs. I can't find what kind of discs that Scoop got so had to put his in generic.

These are my unscientific findings (I'll add to this list too if I've missed something):

1. Even with the flights and hotel, Europe is typically less expensive than the U.S. but, there are exceptions.
2. Laura mentioned in one of her posts that Dr. Bierstedt offered to redo her surgery for free if she had problems. She would still have to pay for her flights to Europe but, I thought that demonstrated the doctor's confidence. She has it in writing.
3. I have gone through most of the Surgery Outcome notes and it seems that many of the people that got Prodisc-C in the U.S. did not have good outcomes. I'm not sure if that is because they were the first here in the U.S. and the surgeons were just learning and/or if it has something to do with the disc.
4. I believe the few people on the board that had the Mobi-C in the last few years in the U.S. have had good outcomes. Dr. Pettine in Colorado was recommended by Colorado Babe. It really demonstrated to me that the most important decision is the surgeon and then the disc, placement and correct size of the disc are also really important if you want a good outcome.
5. Doctors in the U.S. may be willing to discount their rates. It doesn't hurt to ask if a person is paying out of pocket.
6. Another thing to consider is health insurance in case of a complication. Dr. Bierstedt's office did not mention that to me in their quote. Cheryl mentioned that Dr. Clavel's office did include insurance in his quote. I'm not sure what happens in the U.S. but, I imagine the patient would be charged (paying out of pocket) unless something was arranged prior to the surgery with the doctor's office. We all hope there will not be a complication during surgery but, best to plan ahead just in case. Sometimes our health insurance follows us out of state in case of an emergency. Perhaps the insurance company would pick up those incremental costs...worth checking.

__________________
2006: epidural shots did nothing; 2 surgeons recommended 2 level fusion, I declined.
2007 - 2010 4 foraminotomy and cord decompression cervical surgeries and 2 endoscopic discectomy T7-T8 surgeries; total 6 with Dr. Jho (Pittsburgh,PA) My C6/C7 autofused around 2009.
2013 - 2015: epidurals 3 times (again did nothing) and 4 Radiofrequency ablation (or RFA) procedures.
2016 more RFAs, hit the 10 year mark of this insanity and pain, 3 level M6-C ADR with Dr. Clavel May 19, 2016

Last edited by Cynlite; 04-14-2015 at 12:50 AM.
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  #92  
Old 04-13-2015, 04:15 PM
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Cynlite Cynlite is offline
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Default Favorable Exchange Rate USD to EURO Graphs

With any luck, the markets will move to a 1:1 ratio or less before I have to book my surgery! The rates on the graph are wholesale rates so, I will most likely have to pay a point or something above to a bank to wire the funds. 2015 has been a good year for traveling abroad compared to prior years!







Simple article that explains why the exchange rate is dropping for the Euro:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...than-the-euro/
__________________
2006: epidural shots did nothing; 2 surgeons recommended 2 level fusion, I declined.
2007 - 2010 4 foraminotomy and cord decompression cervical surgeries and 2 endoscopic discectomy T7-T8 surgeries; total 6 with Dr. Jho (Pittsburgh,PA) My C6/C7 autofused around 2009.
2013 - 2015: epidurals 3 times (again did nothing) and 4 Radiofrequency ablation (or RFA) procedures.
2016 more RFAs, hit the 10 year mark of this insanity and pain, 3 level M6-C ADR with Dr. Clavel May 19, 2016
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  #93  
Old 04-13-2015, 06:04 PM
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jss jss is offline
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Cynlite, my cost was $29k, not $37.4k.
__________________
C4/5 - ACDF in 2000
C5/6 - ACDF in 2002
C3/4 & C6/7 - M6 ADR, Nov 2009, Barcelona
Conceded defeat to a manifestly disingenuous BCBS-TX in my quest for reimbursement, Jan 2011
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  #94  
Old 04-13-2015, 06:11 PM
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Cynlite Cynlite is offline
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Default

I'll fix it. I thought you were giving me the values in euros so, I converted it to dollars based on the exchange rate you gave me.

Also, Colorado Babe confirmed the cost paid by insurance in the spreadsheet. She only had a $25 copay LOL.
__________________
2006: epidural shots did nothing; 2 surgeons recommended 2 level fusion, I declined.
2007 - 2010 4 foraminotomy and cord decompression cervical surgeries and 2 endoscopic discectomy T7-T8 surgeries; total 6 with Dr. Jho (Pittsburgh,PA) My C6/C7 autofused around 2009.
2013 - 2015: epidurals 3 times (again did nothing) and 4 Radiofrequency ablation (or RFA) procedures.
2016 more RFAs, hit the 10 year mark of this insanity and pain, 3 level M6-C ADR with Dr. Clavel May 19, 2016
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  #95  
Old 04-13-2015, 06:38 PM
Cheryl0331 Cheryl0331 is offline
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Default rates haven't gone up too much then

If JSS paid 29K and I am paying 32K, not a bad increase at all!
__________________
53 yr old female 5'7" 141 lbs. non-smoker conservative treatments failed
2007 fusion @ C4-6 peek cages, failed due to long term use of cox-2 inhibitor
2008 revised C4-6 donor bone, plate & screws
2009 fusion with Roi-C @ C3-4
2015 MRI & CT mjr ddd @ C6-7, segmental kyphosis at C7-T1, 2-level M6-C prosthesis by Dr. Clavel Barcelona Spain
2019 H.O. formed behind M6-C @ C6-7 left nerve rt & in spinal canal.
2020 Revision C6-7 to a cp-ESP prosthesis by Dr. Schmitz Dusseldorf Germany
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  #96  
Old 04-13-2015, 09:46 PM
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scoop302 scoop302 is offline
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Default

I have 2 M-6s
__________________
1979 car accident: rear ended
1980 ACDF C4-5
4/8/11 stopped, hit again
3 epidurals, PT, 2 MRI's,etc.
scheduled 3 times for C5-6, 6-7 fusion,
plus laminectomy at C3-4, and C 7, advised to do Bilateral lamino-foraminotomy C5-6, C6-7,a Percutaneous Discectomy L4 -L5
7/14 RFA on L3 to L5 (awake, local only)
C5-6,6-7 M-6 ADR with Dr. Clavel 9/17/14,
12/7/15 RFA L2-S1, Facet injections C2-7
6/3/16 RFA L2-S1, epidural L4,5, 8/26/16 RFA C1-7
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  #97  
Old 04-14-2015, 12:38 PM
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Cynlite Cynlite is offline
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Default Question for post surgery patients

Thanks Scoop! I've changed it on the spreadsheet.

I have a question for the post surgery patients who had cervical spine surgery in Europe. So far, I keep reading how happy people are after they wake up from surgery and that they feel better than before they went into surgery. Is there anyone out there who struggled after their surgery during the two weeks they spent in Europe and then came home to a 90 - 100% recovery? If so, I'd really like to hear your story. I've read many stories of people in the U.S. struggling after surgery and am trying to better understand why there is a disparity. Is it because the surgeons in Europe (mentioned on this board) are just that good?
__________________
2006: epidural shots did nothing; 2 surgeons recommended 2 level fusion, I declined.
2007 - 2010 4 foraminotomy and cord decompression cervical surgeries and 2 endoscopic discectomy T7-T8 surgeries; total 6 with Dr. Jho (Pittsburgh,PA) My C6/C7 autofused around 2009.
2013 - 2015: epidurals 3 times (again did nothing) and 4 Radiofrequency ablation (or RFA) procedures.
2016 more RFAs, hit the 10 year mark of this insanity and pain, 3 level M6-C ADR with Dr. Clavel May 19, 2016
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  #98  
Old 04-14-2015, 04:08 PM
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jss jss is offline
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I don't have permission to share the story, but feel I can share enough to answer your question without getting permission. I am aware of one of Dr Clavel's patients that had a double M6-C a year or so after I did. It took her 10 months get back to feeling as well as she did BEFORE surgery. Today she's doing fine and is able to do anything she wants; but that particular recovery was long and difficult. I'm familiar with a male patient of Clavel's with a similar story; that is, doing fine today, but the recovery to long and difficult.

I've observed that women tend to be more likely than mane to have a difficult recovery.
__________________
C4/5 - ACDF in 2000
C5/6 - ACDF in 2002
C3/4 & C6/7 - M6 ADR, Nov 2009, Barcelona
Conceded defeat to a manifestly disingenuous BCBS-TX in my quest for reimbursement, Jan 2011
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  #99  
Old 04-14-2015, 04:50 PM
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Cynlite Cynlite is offline
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Posts: 666
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Thanks for sharing jss. I suppose if I have a miraculous recovery, I'll have to consider that a true gift. I kept hoping after my last round of surgeries that I would wake up from one and feel better but, that didn't happen. The first few days on drugs are okay but, then the healing and swelling from the surgery kick in and it's all downhill from there. There are no crystal balls and it is major surgery so, it will be what it will be.
__________________
2006: epidural shots did nothing; 2 surgeons recommended 2 level fusion, I declined.
2007 - 2010 4 foraminotomy and cord decompression cervical surgeries and 2 endoscopic discectomy T7-T8 surgeries; total 6 with Dr. Jho (Pittsburgh,PA) My C6/C7 autofused around 2009.
2013 - 2015: epidurals 3 times (again did nothing) and 4 Radiofrequency ablation (or RFA) procedures.
2016 more RFAs, hit the 10 year mark of this insanity and pain, 3 level M6-C ADR with Dr. Clavel May 19, 2016
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  #100  
Old 04-15-2015, 02:38 PM
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Cynlite Cynlite is offline
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Posts: 666
Default Comments from other Thread re Bierstedt vs. Clavel Rehab.

These posts are copied from the thread “Two Level ADR U.S. Pay out of Pocket"
Posts dated April 15, 2015

Scoop302

You are right that going to Bierstedt has a much better rehab after. In Spain, two days after surgery, you go back to the hotel. Every day, once a day, a therapist comes to your room and will work with you for as long as she feels is necessary. One time she was there for 40 minutes, another time, it was 1 1/2 hours. That is it. You can then go out and walk around. It is highly encouraged that you do that. Four or five days after my surgery, my brother and I took a cab to Montserrat, about 1 1/2 hours outside of the city. There is a narrow dirt trail that is probably a couple of miles long that winds up to the top of the mountain. We started walking it, and we got almost to the top before we turned around because it was starting to rain. I wanted to go on, my brother said no way, he shouldn't have even let me do it at all. To answer the question of how you recover, before surgery I couldn't walk a block on a flat paved surface without pain. After, I walked a couple of miles up a steep, slippery dirt trail five days after surgery in a soft collar (I'm not completely stupid). You should have seen the looks I was getting from all the other people on the trail, especially the ones turning around and quitting. We also spent most days walking all over the city. I bet, I probably walked a hundred miles or so while I was there. That was what I did for rehab, and I am glad I did that instead of massages, rub downs etc. Too be honest, I wanted to go to Germany for other reasons, but also because of the rehab. Due to other reasons, it was decided for me to go to Spain and I am glad I did.

__________________
1979 car accident: rear ended
1980 ACDF C4-5
4/8/11 stopped, hit again!?!
3 epidurals, PT, 2 MRI's,etc.
scheduled 3 times for C5-6, 6-7 fusion,
plus laminectomy at C3-4, and C 7, advised to do Bilateral lamino-foraminotomy C5-6, C6-7,a Percutaneous Discectomy L4 -L5
7/14 RFA on L3 to L5 (awake, local only)
C5-6,6-7 M-6 ADR with Dr. Clavel 9/17/14



JeffR

I don`t think you can think of Rehab being BETTER in Germany, it is more of a question of a different strategy or philosophy. Clavel wants you to be mobile after surgery and do physio to help get moving and stretch things out - but not to over do it. Bierstedt wants you to be much more active post surgery and get started on the physio much more aggressively. As for which is BETTER I don`t know if there have been any long-term studies on ADR outcomes based on post surgical physio intensity - I think each surgeon is going with what they perceive as working for their patients.
__________________
Lifelong history of back issues from a young age, spasms etc.
1995 - Weightlifting injury
1997 - Hip Injury
2009 - Trampoline injury (just bounced down on my butt)
2009-2011 Physiotherapy and medication, progress but no lasting pain relief
2010 - X-Ray DDD L5-S1, L4-L5, L4-L3
2010 - MRI Herniation L5-S1, Bulges L4-L5, L4-L3
2011 - Epidurals - No relief
2012 - Facet Injections - No relief
2012 - Discogram TBI - positive L3-S1

L3-S1 ADR M6-L w Clavel 11/28/2012


Stonewall Boris

The physio at Medicos was not that intensive. They did do some things I was not a custom to. The ever time I worked up a sweat was in the gym. And if it was too much I just said that. Medicos has you doing a full day but with a lot time between sessions. Between going back to my room a the Mariott and going to the lounge at Medicos I never felt pressured. It was good, in my opion, that a doctor was checking up on me, at Medicos, also my bandages were being changed there by a nurse.
__________________
"the stone"

1969 age 10 1 week hospital stay lower back injury
1987 5 day hospital stay lower back injury
2006-2007 30 prolotherapy sessions
2008-current pain clinic
2012 December 13, 3 level lumbar ADR M6 Dr. Bierstedt Hattigen Germany

Last edited by Cynlite; 04-15-2015 at 02:39 PM. Reason: Spelling
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