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  #11  
Old 07-04-2015, 08:09 AM
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jss jss is offline
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Mike,

From reading surgical outcomes online, Dr Zigler has a remarkable record. While I'm not a fan of the ProDisc that he uses, I am a big fan of successful outcomes. He seems to churn out a steady stream of successful ProDisc ADRs that few other surgeons have managed. I'd suggest that you're as likely to have a successful outcome at his hands as you would with any other surgeon/device.

Good luck!
__________________
C4/5 - ACDF in 2000
C5/6 - ACDF in 2002
C3/4 & C6/7 - M6 ADR, Nov 2009, Barcelona
Conceded defeat to a manifestly disingenuous BCBS-TX in my quest for reimbursement, Jan 2011
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  #12  
Old 07-04-2015, 09:28 AM
Mike33 Mike33 is offline
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Thanks JSS!

Do either of you know much about Dr. James Yue? Apologies again for all of the questions!
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  #13  
Old 07-04-2015, 11:51 AM
bfalberg bfalberg is offline
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Mike,

My first post ever. I will be entering my own info shortly.

I went to Germany in April for a hybrid 3-level ADR and fusion with Dr. Bierstedt at ONZ (name of firm).

My hope was to get by back back. So far all of the pain that was in the spine is mostly gone. As you may find out, the recovery is much more difficult than I thought it would be anyway. Lots of nerve pain down both legs all the way to my completely numb big toes.

I'm told this is normal and should abate in some number of months. it is due to the disc spaces being stretched to their original height. In addition, the surgery itself messes with a lot of nerves.

I am off of pain meds after beginning a nerve med called Gabapentin.

I believe that the M6 disc is superior to the ones you can get in the US. DuPuy sued Spinal Kinetics the maker of the M6 for a patent infringement on the "keel" the Prodic-L has. They lost last year, but it kept the M6 off the US market for a decade. Sad, eh?

My most recent x-ray at 7 weeks showed the L4 vertebrae tilted inbetween the two M6 dics. It has me worried, but Dr. Bierstedt says it is normal and will eventually iron itself out as the muscles, ligaments, and nerves adjust.

We'll see. I'd ask lots of questions about how the multi-level intervention can go wrong. I wish I'd asked more.

So, the jury is out, but I am hopeful that I'll be back to running and playing golf in a few months.

Best of luck to you.
__________________
49 years old
DDD since 20 years old
Severe DDD L3/L4, moderate L4/L5, L5/S1
Minimal nerve involvement
ESP-A fusion cage L5/S1, M6 discs at L3/L4 and L4/L5 on 4/28/15 Dr. Bierstedt ONZ Germany
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  #14  
Old 07-04-2015, 01:41 PM
pittpete pittpete is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike33 View Post
Thanks JSS!

Do either of you know much about Dr. James Yue? Apologies again for all of the questions!
James Yue at Yale helped develop the Activ-L
Definitely contact him
__________________
Born 1970/1995-Hurt at work/1996-Right disc fragment L4-L5 discectomy-On/off back pain,no serious leg pain until/2007-Right herniation L5-S1,recurrent small herniation at L4-L5 with unbearable leg pain/6/08 discectomy L5-S1/leg pain relieved/occaisional mechanical pain/2012-Cymblata 60 mg,occasional aleve/2014-LB pain not debilitating but chronic,Rhizotomy relieves facet pain on right side/2015-L4-S1 facets shot/4/15 PLIF L4-S1 with facectomy
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  #15  
Old 07-04-2015, 08:11 PM
Mike33 Mike33 is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2015
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Thanks bfalberg for sharing your story. I hope your nerve pain gets better soon. That's one of my issues - I don't have much nerve pain now but wonder if I should expect it post surgery. I also wonder if a microdiscectomy would help my mechanical pain or are my disks too degenerated?

Did you ever have muscle twitches in your legs? I'm getting them in both thighs and wonder if that's the nerve impingement(s) in my back.

Thanks PittPete - I'll be calling Yue on Monday. Also considering contacting Dr. Bitan in NY since he's close - not sure how good he is though.
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  #16  
Old 07-04-2015, 09:21 PM
pittpete pittpete is offline
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Dr Bitan doesnt do ADR any longer.
If you're looking into ADR then you need to go to an ADR doctor.
If you have DDD then you need to assess the condition of your facet joints.
Easiest way is to have facet blocks done.
Getting a lumbar ADR with facet degeneration is asking for trouble..
I assume you're in the NY/Conn area.
PM me if you need any advice.
__________________
Born 1970/1995-Hurt at work/1996-Right disc fragment L4-L5 discectomy-On/off back pain,no serious leg pain until/2007-Right herniation L5-S1,recurrent small herniation at L4-L5 with unbearable leg pain/6/08 discectomy L5-S1/leg pain relieved/occaisional mechanical pain/2012-Cymblata 60 mg,occasional aleve/2014-LB pain not debilitating but chronic,Rhizotomy relieves facet pain on right side/2015-L4-S1 facets shot/4/15 PLIF L4-S1 with facectomy
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  #17  
Old 07-05-2015, 09:17 AM
Mike33 Mike33 is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2015
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Thanks PittPete. I wonder why Bitan stopped doing ADR?

Also, it appears I will be getting ALIF at L5-S1 where the facet degeneration is. I forgot to ask the doc what'll happen to those facets since its anterior and they won't be cutting them out. I do think, however, it's safe to have ADR at 4/5 since those facets look good.

I am in the York, Pa area about 1 hour from Baltimore and 2 hours from Philly. Haven't been able to find much in those areas though....
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  #18  
Old 07-06-2015, 08:00 PM
Mike33 Mike33 is offline
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Testing signature....
__________________
- 37 y/o male
- fell off of 20 foot roof in 1997
- L4/L5 Laminectomy/Partial Discectomy for drop-foot (right) and sciatica after accident (successful)
- sporadic flare-up over last 18.5 years
- now worsening with lumbar/sacral/coccyx muscle spasms
- DDD L4/L5/S1, candidate for hybrid/ADR
- considering Dr. Zigler, Dr. Zeegers, local doc
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  #19  
Old 07-06-2015, 08:04 PM
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Cynlite Cynlite is offline
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Mike, click on your name, "view public profile", "about me". You can see the changes you make there
__________________
2006: epidural shots did nothing; 2 surgeons recommended 2 level fusion, I declined.
2007 - 2010 4 foraminotomy and cord decompression cervical surgeries and 2 endoscopic discectomy T7-T8 surgeries; total 6 with Dr. Jho (Pittsburgh,PA) My C6/C7 autofused around 2009.
2013 - 2015: epidurals 3 times (again did nothing) and 4 Radiofrequency ablation (or RFA) procedures.
2016 more RFAs, hit the 10 year mark of this insanity and pain, 3 level M6-C ADR with Dr. Clavel May 19, 2016
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  #20  
Old 07-07-2015, 05:22 PM
TheGrt8 TheGrt8 is offline
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Mike,
Welcome man, this site is very great and will answer a lot of your questions. I just had a 3 level ADR with Dr Clavel using the M6-C at levels C5-7 and the M6-L at L4-5. It's been exactly 2 months to this day, and my spine was jacked up 22mm or about 1 inch in disc height. Entailed, I've gained about 1 1/2-1 3/4 inches in height. The term which causes tingling, numbness, pain, etc is called distraction pain, and is very common in the majority of patients, as your muscles and ligaments are all being stretched. It's like going through puberty a second time. I always use the analogy of when you had braces and how bad your teeth would hurt for 1-2 weeks after adjustments (same situation, but is course more complex). I have to say that I rarely get it, and if any it's mild. Massage seems to help me, but I've learned stretching flares me up sometimes. Walking 2-3 1/2 miles a day helps me tremendously. I have no back or neck pain anymore, just some mild tightness here and there in my neck. My main issue was pelvic pain, but the ultimate contributing factor was my spine. I just Skyped with Clavel last Thursday for a follow up, and I will start PT at the 3 month mark, after getting XRays and MRI's again. My sacral nerves need to regenerate, now that there is no more disc tear leakage or compression my on spine. Some people heal faster than others, and like from what you're reading could take a while.
I would like to share some advice and knowledge to help determine your new life pain free. Don't use the Prodisc by all means, you will have many revisions with it (it's old and brittle). The next step up is the Moby-C, which is ok but still people have revisions and is becoming obsolete. Next best that is now approved in the US is the Activ@L. It's acts and is like the M6 (can't withstand 1200 lbs of pressure with 360 degrees range of motion), but acts in a different way with its transitional movement, which will significant help you. The link is listed below:
B. Braun Melsungen AG - Products
prid=PRID00004594
The most obvious key to all of this is the surgeon. For you in the US- I would reach out to Dr. Carl Lauryssen. He's a great Neurosurgeon as well. Could never hurt to get as many opinions as possible.
The Spinal Doctor.
Lauryssen works with the M6 disc and really knows his stuff. I had a wonderful consult with him, but goes overseas to Switzerland to do the M6 because it's not approved in the US. He's like Clavel, not arrogant and very compassionate about his patients. Best of luck, and I wish you a safe, healthy, and great recovery which ever route you take. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family. I don't know what the final outcome will be for me, but I know like many, it's like the stock market. You have your good and bad days. Feel free to personal message me if you have any further questions or concerns. I'm not a doctor, as are any of us, but everyone on here is to help one another.
__________________
May '15, 3 level ADR with Clavel
2 ADR M6-C at C5-7 (2 6mm)
-Loss of disc height (DDD), osteophytes, approaching thecal sac with severe nerve compression. On the verge of paralyzation per Dr Clavel, but spine was fine per 40 US Nueros/quacks
1 ADR M6-L at L4-5 (1 10mm)
-Torn disc (fissuring), loss of disc height (mild DDD), approaching thecal sac as well
*Gained 1 1/2- 1 3/4 inches in height due to M6 disc height, and perfect lordosis now

Last edited by TheGrt8; 07-07-2015 at 10:57 PM.
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