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  #51  
Old 06-15-2007, 10:35 AM
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Harrison Harrison is offline
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OK, let me ask a question that may or may not be obvious -- is this an illegal copy of the video?

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"Harrison" - info (at) adrsupport.org
Fell on my ***winter 2003, Canceled fusion April 6 2004
Reborn June 25th, 2004, L5-S1 ADR Charite in Boston
Founder & moderator of ADRSupport - 2004
Founder Arthroplasty Patient Foundation a 501(c)(3) - 2006
Creator & producer, Why Am I Still Sick? - 2012
Donate www.arthropatient.org/about/donate
  #52  
Old 06-15-2007, 01:37 PM
ZorroSF ZorroSF is offline
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that's a good question. I don't know it's origination.
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***********************
1/2006 DDD L5/S1

Prodisc St. Mary's 12/2006 not diagnosed properly pre-op and now have DDD L4/L5, facet calcification L5-S1/L4-L5, mild scoliosis and left knee pain. DDD: C3 through C6
  #53  
Old 06-15-2007, 04:00 PM
davidj8121 davidj8121 is offline
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Zorrosf,

You are talking about two different issues. ADR is one, and the state of the healthcare industry is another. They are not related.

Heart attack victims and cancer patients deserve to be treated with everything the system can provide. Those are the people that should be complaining. Our ADR's, like it or not, are still experimental in this country. I do not agree with that classification of ADR but as a business person I understand. What would happen if 6 years from now, after authorizing 2 million ADR'S they find out it won't last more that 5 years? ADR is still considered an elective surgery. If you want fulll coverage, go with fusion. We do have options that are fully covered. We just think, myself included, that we know better than they do as to what is good for our bodies. I still talk to doctors now that have no idea what we might be in for if our ADR'S do not stand the test of time. We, the brave few, will provide them with the info they need.

I AGREE that our healthcare system needs revised. But don't think for one minute that if it becomes "NOT FOR PROFIT" that it will get better. God help us if we ever have government run healthcare.

Do you really believe for one minute that any hospital in this country would charge $72K to re-attach two finger tips when we had our stomachs, bowels, nerves, and everything else handle, manueuvered, moved and fixed perfectly (in my case at least) for $40K. (That included 72 hours in the hospital as well, I left after 28, didn't need 72).

I personally had Dr. Zigler, A Neurosurgeon, an anathesiologist (never could spell that word), a spnial cord monitor, several nurses, pain meds, a pre-op exam, blood tests, post-op visits, follow-up visits, food, rent, tv, etc., etc. for the cost of $40K. Can you compare that to two finger tips for $72K?

Precisely my point. Moore is an ultra-extremist and very anti-american. Why did the major networks pull his so-called documentary about the Bush connection to the 9/11 tragedy? Because it was based on no fact except for the ones he picks and chooses. He uses the few facts that support his cause and disregards the tons of facts that can dispute every single word that he says.

LBP, why did Oprah drop the story? Why did her "ENTERTAINMENT" attorney's make her drop the interview from her website, and all the "real" websites?

Answer: Because it is B...... !


All of you have done a great job of furthering the cause of ADR. Had it not been for this website and the core group of people who support it I would not be feeling as great as I do today. Regardless of this conversation I truely believe that we are all on the same page.

ADR and the health care system are two different issues. If our ADR's truely prove to be a better solution than fusion, which I believe to be true, at some point very soon it will become the standard for back surgery.

It's just a matter of time. Stay the current course. Let the "TRUE" advocates of the cause speak for us. (HARISON, ET.AL.)

Talk again soon I am sure...

Dave
__________________
David R. Johnson
1996 Disckectomy at L5/S1
12 Months of researching ADR
Surgery 2/8/07 at TBI Prodisc L5/S1 with Dr. Zigler
Feeling Fantastic !!
2009 L3/L4 Finally Went.
6/2009 l3/l4 clean-up surgery, failed miserably
Surgery with Dr. Z again 1/28/2010, L3/4 and L4/5.
That will make 3 Prodisc's. Lumbar feels FANTASTIC!!!!
5/5/10, failed fromanotimy on c5/6.
6/9/10 C5/6 Prodisc replace with the man, Dr. Zigler.
  #54  
Old 06-15-2007, 04:17 PM
ZorroSF ZorroSF is offline
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well it still doesn't sound like you've seen any of his films in its entirety. You still have not shown any evidence he's incorrect. You've just used typical republican inference. That sort of knee jerk response has become the american norm when people don't want to believe real events or scams that take place regardless of hard proof in front of their face.

you haven't quite gotten the point about ADR. Fusion is the standard, yet fusion has undergone drastic changes over the last 25 years. So drastic that they are performing 360 degree fusions. unheard of and denied by insurance companies not too long ago. So what would you consider typical for spine surgery? ADR has been around for a few years now and even cleared FDA. 360 spinal fusions were covered much faster by insurance companies than ADR has. At least you agree ADR is a viable option in the cure for spine pain.

It also doesn't seem that you've been to the emergency room, much less one on the west coast in an area dominated by just a handful of hospitals that can extract whatever amount they choose to stitch you back up. I can assure you that was not an exaggerated amount. Please feel free to contact hospitals in Portland Oregon where that man was stiched up and let us know how wrong that documentary was. In fact I'll show my ADR bill for $140,000. I'm sure you won't believe that either. That's just what the hospital is scamming me for, not the surgeon's bill and not the entire bill for extra fees like labs test and x-rays etc...


http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/8...ill1or0kc5.jpg


oh BTW Moore made up no facts in fahrenheit 9-11. Most of his information was pulled from investigative journalists who have won many awards. One of the biggest sources of that film was the book House of Saud. Even covered by PBS;

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saud/


Foaming at the mouth and calling dissenters of white collar crime "anti-american" is as anti-american and facist as someone in this country can become.
__________________
***********************
1/2006 DDD L5/S1

Prodisc St. Mary's 12/2006 not diagnosed properly pre-op and now have DDD L4/L5, facet calcification L5-S1/L4-L5, mild scoliosis and left knee pain. DDD: C3 through C6
  #55  
Old 06-15-2007, 04:35 PM
davidj8121 davidj8121 is offline
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Zorrosf,

I would not waste my time. Nor any more having a political debate with you. Scams happen everyday in this country if you are unfortunate enough to let yourslef be scammed..

I haven't got the point about ADR. I HAD MINE.
I PAID OUT OF MY POCKET FOR IT, MY CHOICE, SO I THINK I GOT THE &&&*% POINT.

IF you really want to continue this , please PM ME, because the rest of what I have to say is not going to happen here.

I paid $40K for mine, if you paid $140 k for yours, I guess you got scammed...

Must be that West Coast inflation thing..



DJ
__________________
David R. Johnson
1996 Disckectomy at L5/S1
12 Months of researching ADR
Surgery 2/8/07 at TBI Prodisc L5/S1 with Dr. Zigler
Feeling Fantastic !!
2009 L3/L4 Finally Went.
6/2009 l3/l4 clean-up surgery, failed miserably
Surgery with Dr. Z again 1/28/2010, L3/4 and L4/5.
That will make 3 Prodisc's. Lumbar feels FANTASTIC!!!!
5/5/10, failed fromanotimy on c5/6.
6/9/10 C5/6 Prodisc replace with the man, Dr. Zigler.
  #56  
Old 06-15-2007, 05:04 PM
LBP LBP is offline
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Posts: 446
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David,

You privately emailed me "enough" yet you are stirring the pot AGAIN. If you have something constructive fine...but you're are just trying to ignite argument and we don't need it. Just because I cannot aford to pay out of pocket for an ADR doesn't make me less deserving...and it's not exactly elective in order for me to get my life back without causing more havoc. IF two devices are available (adr and fusion) then the ins co should not dictate which one we have to pick. If the surgery is medically necessary (which is very diff than a true elective surgery), then the surgeon and patient should make the decision which device is best given the situation.

Again. You have your disc so if you don't want to help the rest of us get ours, and we all deserve it just as much as you...then leave us alone...don't try to sabbatoge the fight.

Oprah is protective of her work. She has a right to control it. You are on the wrong side of this debate and in time you will see that.
__________________
Injured 9/01
Annular tears L4/5 & L5/S1
denied adr by insurance for 2 level charite as well as hybrid fusion at L5/S1 with Charite at L4/5.

New ins paid for 2 level lumbar prodisc surgery on 4/7/08 (at age 39) with Dr. Westerlund, at Core Orthop
  #57  
Old 06-15-2007, 05:17 PM
Kim Kim is offline
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I really dont want to get in the middle of a political debate here but I do have some info on hospital costs etc.
When I talked to TBI about my ADR they told me the cash cost for two levels was $53K. They also told me that was a discounted cost that the surgeons and hospital had worked together at the time for those who did not have insurance coverage for the procedure.
They also told me that if insurance had been billed it would have cost over $100K. So yes I believe that it would cost 70K for hand surgery as its a very complicated microscopic procedure.
In fact my son had a similar accident over 10 years ago and had to have 3 fingers either reattached partially, wholly or stitched and tendons and muscles reattached. Then it was over 50K and that was over 10 years ago.
I am not a fan of Michael Moore but do believe that our health care in this country truly stinks and that reform is needed. Is governmental take over the answer? I dont think so but do know that people in other countries get much better care than we do here. We have seen this on this board time and again from those who have gone from the US for treatment and also from those who have been citizens of other countries who got ADR without having all the fall de rall we have to go through to get coverage or in my case denied til I didnt have a choice anymore. SIGH
And as far as the statement that folks with cancer have more presedence than we do as spineys I respectfully disagree. I have become disabled due to my condition at age 46 I had a thriving professional practice that I have had to give up due to this.
I feel that anyone should be able to have some control over what they want done to their body medically! It should be between us and our physicians. As far as ADR goes, there is over 20 years of study and tracking in Europe. FDA has approved it. It should be available to us!
Insurance has gotten to the point that they DICTATE even the medications that they will let us have on our policies.
Since when do beaurocrats know what I need to take? I feel it should be left to us and our physicians.
I was not going to post here but I have to now as its gotten really bad.
__________________
Kim
Herniated disc L5/S1 2000 Discectomy 10/2003 Rhizotomy 8/2004 and 3/2005Discogram 11/04 grade 7 tear L5/S1
L4/L5 Grade 5 tear with herniation and stenosis
Evaluated by Dr Blumenthal at TBI
2/2005 ADR 2 level recommended
2 level lumbar fusion
  #58  
Old 06-15-2007, 05:19 PM
Kim Kim is offline
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What I wanted to add above and didnt, Is my livelyhood and my comfort and right to a level of comfortable living LESS important than anyone else's? I dont feel so and hope others dont either
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Kim
Herniated disc L5/S1 2000 Discectomy 10/2003 Rhizotomy 8/2004 and 3/2005Discogram 11/04 grade 7 tear L5/S1
L4/L5 Grade 5 tear with herniation and stenosis
Evaluated by Dr Blumenthal at TBI
2/2005 ADR 2 level recommended
2 level lumbar fusion
  #59  
Old 06-15-2007, 05:20 PM
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Harrison Harrison is offline
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Interesting discussion, albeit a bit off track. Thanks for offering to take some of the heated discussion offline. Good idea to do so; but I suspect y'all (I'm not from Texas, but it works) have more in common than different.

These issues are arguably some of the most complex on planet earth, as they involve solutions that are personal, economic, legal, ethical...but let's get back to how we can help our NEW cause.

What constructive ideas can you offer to help us get to the right folks in media? I've started the process, but want your help too! How about emailing a short introduction to your local papers, with a link to our "True Stories from Patients: Insurance Nightmares Abound" topic? If each of us writes, calls or emails our local papers...the multiplier effect will be huge!

Wuddayasay, hard-working patients?!
__________________
"Harrison" - info (at) adrsupport.org
Fell on my ***winter 2003, Canceled fusion April 6 2004
Reborn June 25th, 2004, L5-S1 ADR Charite in Boston
Founder & moderator of ADRSupport - 2004
Founder Arthroplasty Patient Foundation a 501(c)(3) - 2006
Creator & producer, Why Am I Still Sick? - 2012
Donate www.arthropatient.org/about/donate
  #60  
Old 06-15-2007, 05:37 PM
LBP LBP is offline
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Also, Harrion, do you remember the story posted by a firefighter to Medicare -to encourage them to cover ADR? He had a moving story not so much about ins but how much ADR can help us. I wonder if it was easy or difficult for him to get his. Maybe I'll try to track him down see if we can get him to submit it our thread here. I don't think he's a member. If someone thinks he's a member...let me know...here's the story that was posted as a public comment to CMS:

Commenter: Kenneth
Title: Lieutenant
Organization: Westerville Division of Fire
Date: 09/13/2005
Comment:
I wish each and every one of the individuals who will be making the decision necessary to provide this surgery to medicare patients could have been in my body prior to September 30 2002. You would have been experiencing incredible pain from your lower back through your hip to your ankle with numbness. You would have found no position comfortable to sleep in or to drive a car. Sitting would feel like you had a knife in your hip. Your children would be suffering because you as their father would no longer be able to play and do the normal things fathers do with their children. You would most likely be home sick more than at work, which puts a hardship on your employer.That was where I was prior to having Dr. Brad Mullen in Columbus, Ohio save my life with the artificial disc implant. I have been a firefighter since 1980. Before that I was a hard-working farmboy. I had worn my back out from all of the work I had done in the past. Degenerative Disc Disease. I was 100 percent pain free the day after my surgery!! Four days after surgery I walked 2000 feet to get the mail and newspaper. 100 days after surgery I returned to full duty as officer on a firefighting engine company in a suburb of Columbus, Ohio. I had investigated the other surgery option, fusion, and I would never have returned to the fire service. I would never have ridden horseback with my children. I would never have lived pain free as I have since September 30, 2002.The device is worth its weight in gold. I have put it to the test. Since its insertion, I have slipped off the side of the fire truck once while getting equipment off and fallen on ice twice. Per department guidelines, and for my own peace of mind, I had x-rays taken after each incident and no movement of the device was indicated. Nor did I have any discomfort from the device.Please do not deny others of this wonderful piece of life-saving hardware. I have two co-workers who love their job but also need this surgery. I also have two other friends, one police and one fire, who have had fusion surgeries and both never worked a day again after surgery and have nothing but unprintable words to say about their conditions.You or someone in your family could be in my position in the future. Do not deny them of the chance to live a better life.
__________________
Injured 9/01
Annular tears L4/5 & L5/S1
denied adr by insurance for 2 level charite as well as hybrid fusion at L5/S1 with Charite at L4/5.

New ins paid for 2 level lumbar prodisc surgery on 4/7/08 (at age 39) with Dr. Westerlund, at Core Orthop
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