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  #1  
Old 11-13-2011, 06:38 AM
Benjaminrbecker Benjaminrbecker is offline
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Default 2 Level Lumbar DDD Considering ADR

I would be grateful to hear from any members inclined to share info related to two level lumbar ADR.

Considering doctors (Bertagnoli, Clavel, Pimento, etc.).
Disc: M6L, Prodisc, Freedomdisc
Anything else!

Many thanks!

Ben
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DDD at L4 & L5
Done nearly all non-invasive treatments
Considering ADR
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  #2  
Old 11-13-2011, 10:02 AM
JEVE19 JEVE19 is offline
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Hi Ben and welcome.

Did you read the surgical outcome section?

Personally, I would not consider Dr. B.
He owns part of Prodisc so there goes an unbiased opinion.
You don't want a back factory.

Consider post op care.

If you read through surgical outcomes, post op care is important and not all docs keep the "care" one you fly back home.
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10-14-2011
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  #3  
Old 11-13-2011, 11:38 AM
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laid up doc laid up doc is offline
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agree w/ vicki - you don't want to be part of a factory, or deal w/ someone w/ a huge financial incentive to put in a particular device when other possibly superior ones are available. (main surgeon i know of w/ big financial ties is Bertagnoli to Prodisc). as far as i know, Boeree and Clavel use the M6 b/c they like it and have a stream of good outcomes using it. no financial ties, not factories...

some people have had good outcomes at Stenum - but many have had issues reaching ANYONE post-op.

my experience w/ Dr Clavel pre and post op has been better than any with any US physician period - speaking as someone who has to advocate for care by other physicians on behalf of patients. obviously given the distance, it isn't THE SAME as having your doctor there to see you for say, a wound infection (which i have) - but i have had no problems getting into a general surgeon about that. you have to feel comfortable having your post-op care at a distance if you go overseas, period. i am in a different situation than most, being a physician myself (and beyond that, in a specialty that deals w/ just about anything).

many others have great experiences w/ Dr Boeree. Out of the German surgeons, I think Zeegars has the fewest complaints? He uses the Activ-L, which wasn't an option for me.

good luck - it's a tough and very personal decision.
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US non-spine MD - laid up no more!!!
had recurrent annular tear L5/S1, failed everything
M6L done 10/19/11 w/ Dr Clavel getting back to my old self more and more every week!
laidupdoc@gmail.com if my PM box is full

The content herein represents my professional thought and opinions in a general sense only; they do not constitute professional advice or services. if you need medical advice, please consult a licensed physician.
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Old 11-13-2011, 08:14 PM
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Jstuckey Jstuckey is offline
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Good luck on your search. I have a lumbar hybrid (6 weeks post op). You are welcome to look through my blog for info, and ask any questions publicly or private message. I had opinions (besides my local) from Pimenta, Bertagnoli, Clavel, and ultimately went with Boeree.
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Joey Sue - 50 years old
9/28/2011: Hybrid STALIF TT interbody fusion at L5-S1 and M6-L ADR L4-5 with Nick Boeree, UK - forever grateful to you Nick! Still doing great.
Prior to the fix: Severe DDD L4-5 and L5-S1 with moderate facet degen at L5-S1, but only mild facet degeneration at L4-5.
http://healthyback2011.blogspot.com/
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  #5  
Old 11-14-2011, 12:15 PM
Benjaminrbecker Benjaminrbecker is offline
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Dear Vicki, "Laid up doc" and Joey,

Thank you very much for the information.

I am currently corresponding with Clavel, Zeegers and am hoping to hear from Boeree soon.

The M6 seems to be the best hardware out there notwithstanding the shorter period it has been available. The shock absorbing qualities seem to make it superior to the pro-disc.

It's a pretty scary scenario to have to go through and it is extremely helpful and comforting to be able to correspond with you.

I hope that you all are doing well.

Many thanks,

Ben (34)
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  #6  
Old 11-14-2011, 02:41 PM
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you might pm herron65 - he had a 2 level lumbar done by Dr Clavel. do a search and you'll find a few who have 2 M6's by Clavel or Boeree.

i fortunately just needed one... am your age so can empathize quite a bit about device concerns. unfortunately there's no crystal ball... but i think i made the best choice i could.
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US non-spine MD - laid up no more!!!
had recurrent annular tear L5/S1, failed everything
M6L done 10/19/11 w/ Dr Clavel getting back to my old self more and more every week!
laidupdoc@gmail.com if my PM box is full

The content herein represents my professional thought and opinions in a general sense only; they do not constitute professional advice or services. if you need medical advice, please consult a licensed physician.
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  #7  
Old 11-14-2011, 06:42 PM
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Texas Toast Texas Toast is offline
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Ben,

I'm still awaiting testing, but my research points to 2nd-generation devices like the M6 and Freedom Disc.

Not only are they shock absorbing like a natural disc, they allow movement that more closely resembles natural movement. The Pro Disc, I think, is a ball-and-socket joint, allowing too much movement in all directions, stressing facets and adjacent discs.

The 2nd-generation discs are also one-piece. The photos I've seen of the Pro Disc make it look like it's at least 3 pieces; too difficult for the surgeon (or dare I say engineer) to correctly place in many instances. From what I've read, the pieces of the Pro Disc can also slip out of alignment.

Different devices for different situations, but I will have a ton of questions if a surgeon recommends the Pro Disc to me. Sounds your on the right track!
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Applied for S.S.D.I./Medicare, 1st appeal.
Dr. ordered Discogram of S1/L5, L5/L4, and L4/L3. Have not gotten; 2 lower discs black/herniated
Injections in cervical, thoracic, lumbar, and 8+ in S.I. joint
Plan: Trying to see spine surgeon at charity hospital, further diagnosis. Evaluate for S.I. joint fusion and lumbar and cervical fusions/ADR.
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  #8  
Old 11-22-2011, 10:53 PM
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silversurfer silversurfer is offline
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Am in the same boat. DDD at L4-S1 and have been "evaluated" by Bertagnoli and given a quote of almost $45k. These are the first concerns I'm seeing about B being a "factory" and am equally concerned about the issues of 1st gen vs 2nd gen products. Whereas before I was ready to jump under any German scalpel I could find (I've been researching this for almost ten years and B and Z were the only ones doing it back then), now I think I'll continue my research and look into Boeree and Clavel.

Also Ben
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Failed Discectomy L5/S1 in '01
2/15/12 - the day it all changed thanks to Dr Boeree and a 2 level M6!
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  #9  
Old 11-23-2011, 12:32 AM
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jss jss is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silversurfer View Post
... now I think I'll continue my research and look into Boeree and Clavel.

Also Ben
Ben,

I would certainly encourage you to pursue those two surgeons. There are two more I would recommend just as highly that you consider; Dr Luiz Pimenta in Sao Paulo, Brazil, and Dr Jack Zigler at Texas Back in Plano, TX. All four of those gentlemen turn out a steady stream of positive outcomes with very few complaints from their actual patients.

Good luck, Jeff
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C4/5 - ACDF in 2000
C5/6 - ACDF in 2002
C3/4 & C6/7 - M6 ADR, Nov 2009, Barcelona
Conceded defeat to a manifestly disingenuous BCBS-TX in my quest for reimbursement, Jan 2011
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  #10  
Old 11-28-2011, 01:19 AM
Benjaminrbecker Benjaminrbecker is offline
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Gents,

Thanks for your posts.

An update and some info.

Dr B gave me a quote of EUR 32.

I have also been in touch with Dr Pimenta in Brazil, Clavel, Zeegers and Boeree. It is very difficult to know how to proceed from here.

Z has provided by far the most comprehensive review and diagnosis of my condition (at a cost of EUR500; Boeree also charges, GBP250). The one sticking point I have with Z is that he recommends Active L, which is not second generation (not shock absorbing). He suggests Active L because he says that it is custom made for each recipient, whereas all others are not.

Regarding Drs Bertagnoli, Clavel and Boeree there seem to be many positive and happy patients.

I would appreciate any advice, info or update you may have as well.

Best of luck.

Ben
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DDD at L4 & L5
Done nearly all non-invasive treatments
Considering ADR
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