Cheesed off, depressed and can't see the tunnel, let alone the damn light!!

[walshcore]

Hi all,

Hope you folks can offer a new guy to the board a little info.

To give a brief run-down of my history, i first had a micro-discectomy (L5/S1) in Dec08 and until the 7/8 month post-op stage all was pretty good, soon after this i started to experience some pain again, however nothing too bad and could be managed with some daily NSAID's, however in Dec09 things started to get real bad again, to the point now that i'm basically back where i was before my operation, bad bad daily pain, can't sit, nor stand for more than a few minutes and walking more than a few feet in also excruciating. The surgeon said it was unlikely that i would re-herniate the disc as apparently about 80% of it had prolapsed, however symptom wise, it feels exactly the same as before. It was also eventually done first time on an emergency basis as i was suspected as having Caudia Equina given i had some saddle numbness and felt the need to urinate continually, i am getting some of this again now also.

To make matters worse i'm currently in Thailand after taking a fantastic new job on the tropical island of Koh Samui and now after 4 months in the position i have had to resign as i firstly cannot take the pain of sitting in the office all day (only relief i get is lying flat on my back!) and also cannot afford any type of decent hospital services here in Thailand as i don't have private med cover, so i am next week having to leave my girlfriend and fly home to Scotland (UK) to get back on a potentially v long National Health Service (NHS) waiting list for treatment.

I'm not quite sure how on earth i'm going to make it through the flight, the whole journey is going to involve 4 flights (economy class!) and take almost 24 hours before i eventually make it home, given i can hardly sit for 10 minutes, how the hell i am going to get through the flight i simply do not know. To compound it further, alongside the normal diclofenac and paracetamol that i take, i have also been taking tramadol which can be purchased here over the counter, however i am flying into the UAE on route to the UK and they are on of a long list of 'banned' drugs there so i cant even rely on the small relief that these give.

Anyway enough winging i guess, my questions are:

• Can ADR be carried out on a disc level which has already had micro-d surgery carried out on it?

• Given i have no Med Cover and very little savings do the big names in ADR surgery (Zeegers, Bertagnoli etc) have any finance schemes, and how much does it cost approx for a single or 2 level ADR?

• As previously stated the surgeon advised that re-herniation was unlikely, (i know only a further MRI will confirm the situation) but on the assumption he is correct, then i understand that the next biggest reason for failed back surgery syndrome (FBSS) can be scar tissue formation which shows at around 6-12 months post-surgery, which again would be in line with my pattern of symptoms. so should this be the case, i understand that little can be done and i'm effectively screwed...correct??

• Any suggestions on how i endure this flight? i'm beginning to panic

Also i my trawling on the net i thought i had seen it all regarding spines and pain etc, however i have come across some interesting sites on pain mitigation...have a look and comment on these....

http://www.painmd.com/about-us/testi...odulation.html

http://www.nrimed.com

(If this later one is for real, i wish i could get a shot before i fly )

Thanks all,

Neil.

[2 Young 2 Hurt Like This]

Hi Neil.

I am sorry you are in so much pain and things aren't going well for you!

Originally the 1st surgeon I went to suggested that I get a 2 level disc replacement. I recently got a 2nd opinion and he suggested getting the Microdiscectomy. Everything I've found out about it says its only good for leg pain. My problem is I have both leg pain/numbness along with lower back pain. I also had the same question for him. If after getting the MicroD would I still be able to get the ADR if need be. He said YES.

I'm not fully convinced the MicroD is for me based off my own research online. I would love to find out anything and everything you know about it.

With everything I have learned from people on this forum and online it has led me get a 3rd opinion. Have you heard or read about a procedure called Disc Decompression? I will be asking my next doctor on March 8th if its something to look further into. To me it seems to good to be true. Here is are a couple sites I found with a little info about it.

http://www.backstrong.net/indh103a_s...on_therapy.htm

http://www.americanspinal.com/

I hope this helps some.

Good Luck!

~Liz

[annapurna]

1st, you can get an ADR at a level where you've previously had a microdiscectomy.

2nd, bring enough of the meds to complete the flights and throw them out on the plane as you exit. No two ways about it though, that trip is going to be hard. I'd talk with the airline and tell them what you're going through. At the least they may be able to move you to a better seat within economy.

[Harrison]

Neil,

There are some highly experienced spinal arthroplasty surgeons in Asia, e.g. Singapore and Korea. Believe it or not, some people in this community have flown to Thailand for ADR! Do a search on this board (the advanced search works well) and you’ll find 21 topics involving Thailand. The costs for an ADR procedure vary wildly; see the FAQ forum for more on this complex issue.

By the way, I think there’s probably a lot of people that will do your job for you while you are away! But you may not get it back when you return….

[CharlesinCharge]

Neil,

As Harrison mentioned, several people have gone over to Thailand to have ADR surgery done because the cost is very inexpensive compared to many other places (even Germany) and they have some excellent doctors & hospitals. I think a single level ADR can be as little as $20K, which sounds like a lot of money but is a really low price compared to what you would pay elsewhere. However, I believe that all of the people that went to Thailand paid for their surgery out of pocket because their insurance refused to pay, and thus they needed the cheapest possible alternative.

I do not think that ANY of the top ADR clinics/surgeons take financing---it is cash up front. A friend of mine tried to see if he could get a payment plan for an ADR in Germany, and he was told he had to pay the full price in advance.

Is there any relative or someone close to you that might be able to help you with the cost, and you could pay them back? You are already in Thailand and there are a couple of very good surgeons there that can do the surgery for one of the lowest costs around, if you could somehow borrow the money.

Good luck,

[walshcore]

Thanks for the replies everyone,

Guess that's me screwed for the Germany ADR route, i had assumed it would run to about $20,000 or so, not as much as $40,000, someone is clearly making a lot of money out of our pain!!

Will look further into the Thai/far East option, anyone have any specific surgeons names??

Liz,

You are correct in that Micro-D is supposed to only deal with the radiculopathy pain, and apparently not the underlying back pain itself, however i had both back and leg pain last time and the Micro-D cleared both up (initially!!) in term of the decompression link that you sent, i did read quite a bit about this first time around, however from the research that i did i found little solid evidence that it actually worked (it's also very expensive...again it seems these people/organisations are not shy in profiteering from others misery! i actually phoned one joker..sorry provider whom refused to even give me any prices for his service!!! he incidentally was also apparently a Chiropractor (another area i could go on a rant about, they have in the past cost me a fortune, and though i can't say they are all the same, i in general view them on a par with snake oil sellers!!

I actually tried a inversion table which is in essence the same thing, it didn't do a lot for me, however if you have a large portion of prolapsed disc, then what can you expect from hanging upside down for 15 minutes!

With regards to making the decision to undertake the operation or not, it's a tough one, many studies show little long term difference between individuals which undertook the op and those who did not, however other studies show that the most success comes to those that have early intervention after the onset of the injury/prolapse I.E within a few months, the first orthopaedic surgeon i saw, stated after looking at my MRi, that left un-treated he would expect the prolapse to look almost identical after 2 years, however i have read studies which have showed that the body can re-absorb the disc material to some extent, if given sufficient time.

surprised no comments re:

http://www.nrimed.com

Take a look at the videos, it looks like a bloody miracle...what's that about if its too good too be true.....etc etc.....!!

Neil.

[kimmers]

Walsh,

As you know, Cauda Equina is a medical emergency. I would get your symptoms checked out ASAP to rule that out. I do know of a friend who got Cauda Equina and the effects are permanent.

As for spinal decompression, don't know anyone it worked on. Very expensive and I do believe it is a racket, but someone on here might have had it work. I do have a friend who was going to try it and I warned her but she said it was cheaper than having surgey.
Decompression done in Physical Therapy did not work for me, increased the pain in fact.

If I were you, I would get it worked up with the NHS as an emergency, because it may very well be. My friend ignored her symptoms and then it was too late. She has to go through self-catherization, bowel problems, etc... I feel very bad for her as she has had a rough go.
Good luck and welcome.

[ans]

I agree that Cauda Equina is a surgical emergency. I don't know who you'd see but here's a long read of it. There can be a very narrow window of time to act else you or one could end up in a wheelchair with deep regrets:

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/791613-overview

My best; sorry you are in this position. - ans

[hey_look_its_dave]

My neigbour had his disc herniation trimmed about 11 years ago. He's fine, and he plays intensive baseball all the time. It's the ONLY success story I know of. When I had my disc trimmed, the surgeon told be it works on 19 out of 20 people! I have a hard time believing it, since all the hoop strength of the disc is gone and trimming it just weakens it further. Anyway, mine only held for 6 months and I was careful about not lifting.

Dave

[AJ]

Hi, hope you are doing ok. I had two level adr surgery 3 days after starting with cauda equina syndrome on the NHS in England. If you develop full blown symptoms you would be treated as an emergency.PM me if you want any details.

alison