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  #61  
Old 04-14-2015, 05:08 PM
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colorado babe colorado babe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynlite View Post
Colorado Babe ~ There are a few things I'm considering besides cost when it comes to surgery. I have to make cost not be a deciding factor on where I'll go because I have to put my future health first. But, I think you are right in that appealing the insurance company when all is said and done makes sense. (BTW, I removed you as a hybrid on the spreadsheet because I think that means an ADR next to a fusion.)

I could get the Mobi-C surgery here in Arizona but, I'm not thrilled with the surgeons here so far. I need to keep exploring my options though and try not to taint my decision before I have all the information. So, far all I have gotten is disappointment in my home state because they always say fusion. Dr. Yeung, who I think is one with the most ADR experience here is a Pro-Disc doctor. Because of the HO rate and all the failed surgeries I've read about with this disc, I'm not even going to consider it. So, it's down to the M6-C and the Mobi-C. (BTW, one surgeon thinks I need two discs replaced but, they are not adjacent so, a surgeon with experience doing two adjacent levels with the Mobi-C is not an issue for me.)

I traveled six times to Pittsburgh already for spinal surgery so, I have that experience behind me. It really wasn't pleasant as you can imagine and this has been a long hard road of suffering. I know you get that too! I want to make sure that when I have surgery this time, it will be my best shot at my last time! These are the things I'm thinking about:

Surgeon - Who is the best surgeon to give me the best shot at recovering? I think Dr. Pettine is one of them so, I haven't ruled him out. I think there are three really good ones in Europe as well. The three in Europe have so much experience it's kind of hard to stack anyone in the U.S. up against them. But, like I said before, I won't proceed with surgery until I have explored all my options in the U.S. too.
Disc - What disc is going to give me the lowest HO rate and avoid further degeneration of my spine? I don't have enough information to compare the Mobi-C and M6-C. I just know that in Europe, they use the M6-C more often and the fact that it is self constraining is a selling point.
Physical Therapy - I've read and believe that immediate physical therapy after surgery is critical to the healing process. Dr. Bierstedt charges an extra $2000 euro over Dr. Clavel and I'm pretty sure it's to cover the cost of PT. He offers a very extensive PT program. Here's what his rep said to me "Post-surgical rehab is very beneficial and has a significant impact on the final success of the surgery. The extended stay gives us the chance to supervise for 2 weeks post-surgery including wound control and final check up. That patients would only stay 1-2 days as in-patient and then send home without further close supervision is almost unethical. This procedure is rather associated with costs and legal responsibility – factors that are not really having the focus on the patients well-being and care." I don't know what the other European doctors offer when it comes to PT. In the U.S., many people don't start P.T. until six weeks after surgery. I kind of like Dr. Bierstedt's approach that includes a daily program with massage and guided stretching to wake up the body. I wish we had something like that here.

I am so appreciative of you sharing your experience with me and offering your thoughts and suggestions. Knowing that your migraines went away is huge. I just spent the last two days in bed again because of them. They have completely crippled my life so I cannot make any plans whatsoever. The headaches on top of all the other pain are just a bi***! Every time I read of someone who no longer has them, it makes me happy and gives me hope. I would not wish them on my worst enemy.

I know the experience that you and several others have shared with me is truly invaluable so, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!
Did you know that Dr. Pettine was the first surgeon in the world to perform the first, second, third and fourth level ADR? He is well known and I truly owe him my life for saving me. He and Dr. Techy are amazing and I truly believe they were the best surgeons for me. I am also glad that I fought the insurance and won. If we all give up so quickly, we are just letting them get away with denying everyone after us. The Mobi-C has been great. I have no complaints at all.

I didn't start my PT until about 3 months after surgery. However, I did have occupational PT in the hospital. I really needed the time to recuperate and get off all the drugs I was on. I don't think I would have done well if I had started right after my surgery but I started on the treadmill right away.

I am so sorry you are having to go through all of this and be in so much pain as you research. It is no fun -- last year I was suicidal and the only thing that kept me going was fighting insurance and not taking no as an answer. You need to keep doing your research and reaching out in order to figure out what is best for you. As far as the surgeon goes, I went to three before I chose Dr. Pettine. As soon as I met him, I knew he was the one. Glad I was right because I couldn't have possibly been able to handle the pain much longer. 16 years of pain is just to long but like most of us, we don't want to do surgery but finally give in when we can't take it anymore.

If you ever want to talk, I would be happy to share my phone number with you. Stay strong and keep on doing what your doing. You will find closure.
__________________
1998- Injured neck and back in USAF
2011 - Started experiencing Severe Symptoms, Migranes, numbness, spasms in legs and feet and sciatica.
Feb 2014 - Received upper Lumbar Injection - Severe Allergy to injection
Mar 2014 - MRI of Cervical and Lumbar, protruding disc in C3-7, Herniated Disc in L5/S1, placed on STD and FMLA )
July 2014 - Stem Cell Procedure performed
Oct 20, 2014 - ADR (MOBI-C) at C5-7 and Anterior Fusion at L5/S1 by Dr. Pettine and Dr. Techy

Last edited by colorado babe; 04-15-2015 at 08:16 AM.
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  #62  
Old 04-14-2015, 05:10 PM
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colorado babe colorado babe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffR View Post
My improper definition, I meant hybrid surgery in that you had a fusion and an ADR at the same time, not a hybrid fusion (which is something different).
Yes, you are correct. I had both surgeries at the same time for my cervical and lumbar!
__________________
1998- Injured neck and back in USAF
2011 - Started experiencing Severe Symptoms, Migranes, numbness, spasms in legs and feet and sciatica.
Feb 2014 - Received upper Lumbar Injection - Severe Allergy to injection
Mar 2014 - MRI of Cervical and Lumbar, protruding disc in C3-7, Herniated Disc in L5/S1, placed on STD and FMLA )
July 2014 - Stem Cell Procedure performed
Oct 20, 2014 - ADR (MOBI-C) at C5-7 and Anterior Fusion at L5/S1 by Dr. Pettine and Dr. Techy
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  #63  
Old 04-15-2015, 03:16 AM
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scoop302 scoop302 is offline
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Posts: 193
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You are right that going to Bierstedt has a much better rehab after. In Spain, two days after surgery, you go back to the hotel. Every day, once a day, a therapist comes to your room and will work with you for as long as she feels is necessary. One time she was there for 40 minutes, another time, it was 1 1/2 hours. That is it. You can then go out and walk around. It is highly encouraged that you do that. Four or five days after my surgery, my brother and I took a cab to Montserrat, about 1 1/2 hours outside of the city. There is a narrow dirt trail that is probably a couple of miles long that winds up to the top of the mountain. We started walking it, and we got almost to the top before we turned around because it was starting to rain. I wanted to go on, my brother said no way, he shouldn't have even let me do it at all. To answer the question of how you recover, before surgery I couldn't walk a block on a flat paved surface without pain. After, I walked a couple of miles up a steep, slippery dirt trail five days after surgery in a soft collar (I'm not completely stupid). You should have seen the looks I was getting from all the other people on the trail, especially the ones turning around and quitting. We also spent most days walking all over the city. I bet, I probably walked a hundred miles or so while I was there. That was what I did for rehab, and I am glad I did that instead of massages, rub downs etc. Too be honest, I wanted to go to Germany for other reasons, but also because of the rehab. Due to other reasons, it was decided for me to go to Spain and I am glad I did.
__________________
1979 car accident: rear ended
1980 ACDF C4-5
4/8/11 stopped, hit again
3 epidurals, PT, 2 MRI's,etc.
scheduled 3 times for C5-6, 6-7 fusion,
plus laminectomy at C3-4, and C 7, advised to do Bilateral lamino-foraminotomy C5-6, C6-7,a Percutaneous Discectomy L4 -L5
7/14 RFA on L3 to L5 (awake, local only)
C5-6,6-7 M-6 ADR with Dr. Clavel 9/17/14,
12/7/15 RFA L2-S1, Facet injections C2-7
6/3/16 RFA L2-S1, epidural L4,5, 8/26/16 RFA C1-7
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  #64  
Old 04-15-2015, 11:32 AM
JeffR JeffR is offline
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 356
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I don`t think you can think of Rehad being BETTER in Germany, it is more of a question of a different strategy or philosophy. Clavel wants you to be mobile after surgery and do physio to help get moving and stretch things out - but not to over do it. Bierstedt wants you to be much more active post surgery and get started on the physio much more aggressively. As for which is BETTER I don`t know if there have been any long-term studies on ADR outcomes based on post surgical physio intensity - I think each surgeon is going with what they perceive as working for their patients.
__________________
Lifelong history of back issues from a young age, spasms etc.
1995 - Weightlifting injury
1997 - Hip Injury
2009 - Trampoline injury (just bounced down on my butt)
2009-2011 Physiotherapy and medication, progress but no lasting pain relief
2010 - X-Ray DDD L5-S1, L4-L5, L4-L3
2010 - MRI Herniation L5-S1, Bulges L4-L5, L4-L3
2011 - Epidurals - No relief
2012 - Facet Injections - No relief
2012 - Discogram TBI - positive L3-S1

L3-S1 ADR M6-L w Clavel 11/28/2012
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  #65  
Old 04-15-2015, 12:02 PM
Stonewall_Boris Stonewall_Boris is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 547
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The physio at Medicos was not that intensive. They did do some things I was not a custom to. The ever time I worked up a sweat was in the gym. And if it was too much I just said that. Medicos has you doing a full day but with a lot time between sessions. Between going back to my room a the Mariott and going to the lounge at Medicos I never felt pressured. It was good, in my opion, that a doctor was checking up on me, at Medicos, also my bandages were being changed there by a nurse.

Last edited by Stonewall_Boris; 04-15-2015 at 12:03 PM. Reason: Spelling
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  #66  
Old 04-15-2015, 01:06 PM
Cynlite's Avatar
Cynlite Cynlite is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 666
Default Great Comments!

Scoop, Jeff and Stone ~ Thank you for giving me your thoughts on how rehab went for you with the two different European doctors. I have not contacted Dr. Clavel yet. I really want to hear what Dr. Zeegers has to say after looking at my full back MRIs before I bring another surgeon into the picture. My history is extensive and Dr. Zeegers requires quite a bit of information so, we are still a work in progress. Anyway, I am interested in Dr. Clavel's opinion too. I just need to get to him. I'm not sure if it would be a good idea for me to walk around Barcelona by myself. What are your thoughts on that? I'm on my own in this journey!

Since this is my US thread, the update on that is that I'm still waiting for the Barrow Institute to allow me to see their Mobi-C doctor. I had to get new MRIs, wait for the report and disc to be sent to them and then after that if they like what they see, they will allow me to set up an appointment which will probably be six weeks or more out. What a pain in the you know what!

I ruled out Dr. Yeung in Phoenix who is on the list of the top ADR docs in the US (not in my insurance plan anyway) because he does not implant the Mobi-C. He's still a Prodisc-C surgeon!

I've explored another surgeon locally but, I don't think I'll see him since I want to work with someone who has a lot of experience with disc replacement surgery. Having spent six months reading the surgeries that failed, I surely don't want to be one of them.

Thanks,

Cynlite
__________________
2006: epidural shots did nothing; 2 surgeons recommended 2 level fusion, I declined.
2007 - 2010 4 foraminotomy and cord decompression cervical surgeries and 2 endoscopic discectomy T7-T8 surgeries; total 6 with Dr. Jho (Pittsburgh,PA) My C6/C7 autofused around 2009.
2013 - 2015: epidurals 3 times (again did nothing) and 4 Radiofrequency ablation (or RFA) procedures.
2016 more RFAs, hit the 10 year mark of this insanity and pain, 3 level M6-C ADR with Dr. Clavel May 19, 2016
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  #67  
Old 04-15-2015, 02:54 PM
colorado babe's Avatar
colorado babe colorado babe is offline
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Cynlite: Hugs -- you have definitely had a long hard journey. I commend you for doing your research thoroughly. You are a strong, intelligent woman and you will have a great outcome.
__________________
1998- Injured neck and back in USAF
2011 - Started experiencing Severe Symptoms, Migranes, numbness, spasms in legs and feet and sciatica.
Feb 2014 - Received upper Lumbar Injection - Severe Allergy to injection
Mar 2014 - MRI of Cervical and Lumbar, protruding disc in C3-7, Herniated Disc in L5/S1, placed on STD and FMLA )
July 2014 - Stem Cell Procedure performed
Oct 20, 2014 - ADR (MOBI-C) at C5-7 and Anterior Fusion at L5/S1 by Dr. Pettine and Dr. Techy
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  #68  
Old 04-15-2015, 03:26 PM
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Cynlite Cynlite is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 666
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Ahhhhhh thanks Colorado Babe! The strength comes from being raised as a military brat LOL. I learned a lot about life way sooner than I would have liked to have but, those lessons came in handy so, I'm not complaining

I hope that my threads will someday help others as the ones before me helped me! This is really a great community. I am really DETERMINED to be a success story. Living in constant pain is no way to live life. But, for those of us that do, I learned something along the way and then observed it in my dogs. My dogs don't have any emotional attachment to feeling pain so, they just keep on truckin' after a major surgery. It's pretty amazing. I just try really hard to keep my emotions happy and not let the pain get me down.

BTW, I like your surgeon's slogan. It's something like "friends don't let friends get fused." I love it! I tell everyone I know about the alternatives but, sadly so often it falls on deaf ears. People seem to be really convinced that the surgeons doing the "golden standard" know what they are talking about and that's as far as they look.
__________________
2006: epidural shots did nothing; 2 surgeons recommended 2 level fusion, I declined.
2007 - 2010 4 foraminotomy and cord decompression cervical surgeries and 2 endoscopic discectomy T7-T8 surgeries; total 6 with Dr. Jho (Pittsburgh,PA) My C6/C7 autofused around 2009.
2013 - 2015: epidurals 3 times (again did nothing) and 4 Radiofrequency ablation (or RFA) procedures.
2016 more RFAs, hit the 10 year mark of this insanity and pain, 3 level M6-C ADR with Dr. Clavel May 19, 2016
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  #69  
Old 04-15-2015, 04:37 PM
JeffR JeffR is offline
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynlite View Post
Scoop, Jeff and Stone ~ Thank you for giving me your thoughts on how rehab went for you with the two different European doctors. I have not contacted Dr. Clavel yet. I really want to hear what Dr. Zeegers has to say after looking at my full back MRIs before I bring another surgeon into the picture.
Zeegers is great and a really nice guy to boot - I would have seriously considered him but he wasn't using M6s at the time of my surgical decision, you are in good hands!
__________________
Lifelong history of back issues from a young age, spasms etc.
1995 - Weightlifting injury
1997 - Hip Injury
2009 - Trampoline injury (just bounced down on my butt)
2009-2011 Physiotherapy and medication, progress but no lasting pain relief
2010 - X-Ray DDD L5-S1, L4-L5, L4-L3
2010 - MRI Herniation L5-S1, Bulges L4-L5, L4-L3
2011 - Epidurals - No relief
2012 - Facet Injections - No relief
2012 - Discogram TBI - positive L3-S1

L3-S1 ADR M6-L w Clavel 11/28/2012
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  #70  
Old 04-15-2015, 06:43 PM
Stonewall_Boris Stonewall_Boris is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 547
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Dogs do have a way of providing relief. We had to put down our two dogs before going for surgery. Socrates and Galileo were there names. It wasn't because of the surgery, they were just getting old. Big dogs have a shorter life span. And so now I talked my wife into another pup, like Gali, she's another Bullmastiff.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zxmjlnvxp...vIca4lzOa?dl=0

Last edited by Stonewall_Boris; 04-15-2015 at 06:45 PM. Reason: Spelling
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