ADRSupport Community  

Go Back   ADRSupport Community > General Discussion > New Member Introductions

New Member Introductions If you just joined, please introduce yourself here. Please add a signature describing your spinal history (use the "User CP) and ask us how we can help you get started.


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 04-13-2022, 10:01 AM
annapurna annapurna is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,648
Default

To take this to an extreme: if you don't revise your fusion to an ADR AND you do, at some future time, end up with adjacent segment damage, you can get those adjacent segments replaced with ADR for a hybrid spine. There's risks of second operations in the c-spine area due to scarring. Laura lost partial function of one iris and has never fully regained it and had a partially paralyzed vocal cord resolve after time; both caused by the surgery for her second Prodisc in her c-spine. Those risks aside, what I'm getting at is that you're not in a position where choosing to not revise your fusion now places you in an irrevocable situation. There are other options available to get you functional in the future.

I wish I could help more on the questions of stem cell injections into the disks. They aren't well vascularized so I don't think that there's many people attempting it but we've been looking exclusively within the US for regenerative injection practitioners. If you're willing to risk COVID and the myriad problems of a vacation in the US, I could point out who we talk with here. For that matter, if you feel your C-spine is hyper-mobile at C4/5 and C6/7, getting standard prolo or PRP in the soft tissue around the spine might help your overall strength training. That hypermobility is what's been the culprit for most of Laura's problems and we've been using prolo to mitigate that problem, poor static stability, while struggling to allow her to regain strength to improve dynamic stability
__________________
Laura - L5S1 Charitee
C5/6 and 6/7 Prodisc C
Facet problems L4-S1
General joint hypermobility

Jim - minor C5-6 instability and facet damage, currently using regenerative medicine to address

"There are many Annapurnas in the lives of men" Maurice Herzog
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-13-2022, 10:44 AM
elorpar elorpar is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 25
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by annapurna View Post
To take this to an extreme: if you don't revise your fusion to an ADR AND you do, at some future time, end up with adjacent segment damage, you can get those adjacent segments replaced with ADR for a hybrid spine. There's risks of second operations in the c-spine area due to scarring. Laura lost partial function of one iris and has never fully regained it and had a partially paralyzed vocal cord resolve after time; both caused by the surgery for her second Prodisc in her c-spine. Those risks aside, what I'm getting at is that you're not in a position where choosing to not revise your fusion now places you in an irrevocable situation. There are other options available to get you functional in the future.
I am sorry to hear about Laura's case.

Besides my quality of life being at 50% right now (and right now I am not bad at all), what also obsesses me is the perspective of having the whole spine fixed in a long-term future (c4-c5 and c5-c7,.. and so on if degeneration comes to other adjacent disks) with all unconvenients and pains related to this.

Man, I wish I never took that heavy weight in 2020.

Thanks for your wise feedback
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-13-2022, 10:57 AM
elorpar elorpar is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 25
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by annapurna View Post
To take this to an extreme: if you don't revise your fusion to an ADR AND you do, at some future time, end up with adjacent segment damage, you can get those adjacent segments replaced with ADR for a hybrid spine. There's risks of second operations in the c-spine area due to scarring. Laura lost partial function of one iris and has never fully regained it and had a partially paralyzed vocal cord resolve after time; both caused by the surgery for her second Prodisc in her c-spine. Those risks aside, what I'm getting at is that you're not in a position where choosing to not revise your fusion now places you in an irrevocable situation. There are other options available to get you functional in the future.
I am sorry to hear about Laura's case.

Besides my quality of life being at 50% right now (and right now I am not bad at all), what also obsesses me is the perspective of having the whole spine fixed in a long-term future (c4-c5 and c5-c7,.. and so on if degeneration comes to other adjacent disks) with all unconvenients and pains related to this.

Man, I wish I never took that heavy weight in 2020.

Thanks for your wise feedback

Last edited by elorpar; 04-13-2022 at 04:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-13-2022, 09:20 PM
phillyjoe phillyjoe is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 273
Default

I tore my extensor tendon 75% off the elbow bone. PT took away the pain but did not restore strength. Did one round of PRP, very painful for a week. Pain resolved, but strength did not come back. As said above, tendons, like discs, don't have much blood circulation. But I am told it works great for rotator cuff tear and knees.
__________________
Pre Surgery:
C3-C4:Mild disc osteophytes. Mild-moderate right facet arthrosis. Mild right foraminal stenosis.
C4-C5:Midline central disc protrusion, significant. Mild canal stenosis.
C5-C6:Moderate disc osteophytes. Mild-moderate canal stenosis. Moderate-severe bilateral foraminal stenosis.
C6-C-7:Mild-moderate disc osteophytes. Mild canal stenosis. Moderate left and moderate-severe right foraminal stenosis.
June 29,2016-3 level M6 (C4-C7) Dr. Clavel Barcelona
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-14-2022, 09:36 AM
annapurna annapurna is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,648
Default

Yes and no. I ended up with partial tears to a ligament in back of both hands. Surgery was said to be about 25% successful repair full tears and much less at improving the condition for those with partial tears. It took about a dozen prolotherapy treatments spread over a couple of years to regain full function. That was normal prolo, prior to the days where PRP is the solution of choice.

I also had AC joint shoulder surgery nearly ruined by an overly aggressive physical therapist who had me doing exercises that strained the growing scar tissue needed for the joint to heal correctly. It took about 10 years of intermittent prolotherapy, sometimes using PRP, sometimes not, before I hit the right combination and sequence of prolo and strengthening exercises to regain full function. PRP is a great tool used correctly but it's also snake oil when the practitioner promises the sun, the moon, and the stars with it.
__________________
Laura - L5S1 Charitee
C5/6 and 6/7 Prodisc C
Facet problems L4-S1
General joint hypermobility

Jim - minor C5-6 instability and facet damage, currently using regenerative medicine to address

"There are many Annapurnas in the lives of men" Maurice Herzog
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-18-2022, 09:36 AM
Harrison's Avatar
Harrison Harrison is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,975
Default

You may have seen this topic:

Spinal Kinetics M6 Failures

https://www.adrsupport.org/forums/sh...ad.php?t=14153
__________________
"Harrison" - info (at) adrsupport.org
Fell on my ***winter 2003, Canceled fusion April 6 2004
Reborn June 25th, 2004, L5-S1 ADR Charite in Boston
Founder & moderator of ADRSupport - 2004
Founder Arthroplasty Patient Foundation a 501(c)(3) - 2006
Creator & producer, Why Am I Still Sick? - 2012
Donate www.arthropatient.org/about/donate
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-19-2022, 08:21 AM
elorpar elorpar is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 25
Default

Thanks Harrison

It is clear that M6 has had many failures but it is also fair to say it is the most implemented 3rd generation replacement, and % of failures is proportional to the number of total implementations.

Anyway, in your opinion, and assuming the surgeon is competent enough, which is the best replacement for cervical disks? ESP? Axiomed? Why?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-19-2022, 09:01 AM
phillyjoe phillyjoe is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 273
Default

So you are asking a very important question, but it might be the wrong question. Maybe you should be asking yourself "what is the right disc for me"? You will see many, many failures and malfunctions/ migration of Mobi C on the facebook ADR groups. I speculate that it needs perfect placement and isn't too forgiving. Texas Back does M6 but now is pushing Simplify. They claim Simplify is great because it allows imaging without distortion. But aren't we all hoping that after surgery, we live life without endless imaging. Imaging ability makes life easier for the doctors.

I have read some medical journal articles about the M6 failures and posted here. But if there are many such failures as you say, please post copies or references to your recent sources for this position. I am trying to distinguish among poor patient selection, poor placement, vs something actually wrong with the manufacture of the M6.
__________________
Pre Surgery:
C3-C4:Mild disc osteophytes. Mild-moderate right facet arthrosis. Mild right foraminal stenosis.
C4-C5:Midline central disc protrusion, significant. Mild canal stenosis.
C5-C6:Moderate disc osteophytes. Mild-moderate canal stenosis. Moderate-severe bilateral foraminal stenosis.
C6-C-7:Mild-moderate disc osteophytes. Mild canal stenosis. Moderate left and moderate-severe right foraminal stenosis.
June 29,2016-3 level M6 (C4-C7) Dr. Clavel Barcelona
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-19-2022, 09:32 AM
elorpar elorpar is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 25
Default

I didn't state any M6 failure but Harrison, and of course I agree surgeon expertise is a also a key factor.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-19-2022, 12:22 PM
Cheryl0331 Cheryl0331 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 890
Default I echo that Phillie

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyjoe View Post
Well, I can't speak to Dr Clavel's advice, but you do want a secure implant. You don't want it to move. You can appreciate his honesty.
Unfortunately, I don't know much about the design change, other than it had something to do with making a more secure connection between the titanium plates and the core itself. If you look closely at the M6C, they are connected by the woven fibers threaded through the plates. Maybe it wasn't attached that way before.
If you do some reading about HO, I think the literature is showing that it happens after year 5. But for many, it is only a finding on images and doesn't matter. In my case, I got HO at C6-7, and that causes neck pain at night. Arm pain is gone. The neck just doesn't move right lying down.Basically I am fused by a non moving M6 at C6-7. I am still planning on getting it fixed. Why it happened? No one seems to know, but I suspect it is because the M6 comes in limited sizes and it had too small a surface area for my C6-7, there is less movement at 6-7, and it is by design a more constrained device. This is all my speculation, Dr Clavel did not speculate as to the causes. If I could sleep standing up or hanging upside down, life would be perfect.
If he just cared about the money, he would do whatever. Dr. Clavel is and was still a wonderful surgeon and human being. He has always been there for me post-op! I have an M6-C and an ESP-C, and doing great now. My M-6 did not fail, I developed HO behind it was the only reason I had to have a revision. Dr. Schmitz in Germany happen to be the best for the job at the time during Covid at it worst, Spain had shut down their borders and Germany was allowing Medical travel. Dr. Clavel is right about the ESP may not be right for you. It has a curved plate and since it's not as flat as the M6 it may not fit well in your disc space.
__________________
54 yr old female 5'7" 147 lbs. non-smoker conservative treatments failed
2007 fusion @ C4-6 peek cages, failed due to long term use of cox-2 inhibitor
2008 revised C4-6 donor bone, plate & screws
2009 fusion with Roi-C @ C3-4
2015 MRI & CT mjr ddd @ C6-7, segmental kyphosis at C7-T1, 2-level M6-C prosthesis by Dr. Clavel Barcelona Spain
2019 H.O. formed behind M6-C @ C6-7 left nerve rt & in spinal canal.
2020 Revision C6-7 to a CP-ESP prosthesis by Dr. Schmitz Dusseldorf Germany
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
adr failure, artificial disc replacement, disc replacement failure, m6 failure

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Barcelona On The 9th drewrad International Assistance 46 08-09-2014 03:54 PM
Hello from Barcelona grows New Member Introductions 10 05-06-2014 09:09 PM
Surgery Barcelona dhanks0001 New Member Introductions 5 04-12-2013 08:27 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:27 AM.


© Copyright 2006-2017 ADRSupport.org All rights reserved.