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  #1  
Old 05-09-2011, 10:14 AM
biakenny biakenny is offline
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Posts: 27
Default 2 Level M6-L: Should I go with Nick Boeree or Ritter-Lang

Personal (recent) M6-L experiences would be welcome! Please comment. I realize the on this forum RL and Stenum is not viewed as positively as on other forums. But Practice makes perfect, and RL has definitely done amazing amount of these surgeries and has the most experience with M6.

Thank you for our input.

Peter
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  #2  
Old 05-09-2011, 11:25 AM
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Jstuckey Jstuckey is offline
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I'm not post-op yet, but had the same choice. If you have not spoken with Nick Boeree on the phone yet, that may make your mind up for you. I was very impressed with him, and there was absolutely no question which way to go after that phone conference. I felt he did not truly have a plan in mind until discussing my case with me, then offered different options. (Only had email experience with Ritter-Lang, but found my concerns quickly dismissed and the most aggressive/expensive surgery was recommended without hesitation).

Lower cost was a plus too...

English speaking health care professionals a plus.
__________________
Joey Sue - 50 years old
9/28/2011: Hybrid STALIF TT interbody fusion at L5-S1 and M6-L ADR L4-5 with Nick Boeree, UK - forever grateful to you Nick! Still doing great.
Prior to the fix: Severe DDD L4-5 and L5-S1 with moderate facet degen at L5-S1, but only mild facet degeneration at L4-5.
http://healthyback2011.blogspot.com/
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  #3  
Old 05-09-2011, 03:57 PM
CP7959 CP7959 is offline
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biakenny,

I have learned that qty. does not equal quality. I had surgery by Ritter-Lang and can only say how disappointed I am. I spent 2 years undoing what he had done to me, and I am much worse off because of it.

Stenum has a very sexy program and makes it very easy to choose them. Their facility and nursing care is outstanding. You would probably be there with other Americans. But it all ends there. Ritter-Lang moves through surgery very quickly. He will do 6,7,8 surgeries in a day, mostly Friday for patients from overseas.

In all he probably might not a bad surgeon if he cared. He never discussed my case prior to surgery. He went in took out the proposed discs and patched me up. He did not do a proper decompression and ADR preparation.

So to fix me I had a surgeon perform his very first revision to fusion, as well as install his very first ADR. I had no problems. My surgery took over 2 hours each time, compared to the Ritter-Lang 40 minutes for 2 level ADR, what I like to call his "Drive Thru" Surgery.

I can't tell you what your outcome will be, everything may be fine. But I can tell you , there will be more risk at Stenum, just purely by the spreed and carelessness that Ritter-Lang Operates.
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CP

Fusion C6/C7 - 2/2002
Foramenotomy 1/2004 - C5/C6 right side
Stenum M6 - 4/2009 - C4/C5, C5/C6
US Prestige ST - 12/2009 - C3/C4
Revision to Fusion 4/2009 - C5/C6 M6
Auto fuse of M6 at C4/C5 - determined after Xray on 3/2011.
Current - Fused at 3 levels C4/5/6/7, ADR C3/C4
Lumbar L5/S1 Annular tear - pain started 8/2009. MRI Hiz on 3/2011
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  #4  
Old 05-09-2011, 10:25 PM
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Harrison Harrison is offline
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Well, as you members know, I can't be objective about Stenum, given their complication rates, hijacking my web sites and continued marketing assaults. I spent money out of my own pocket hiring a lawyer to intervene legally and have them release my web sites; these are funds I could not afford nor could the non-profit!

I've talked to many of their patients that have reported disastrous outcomes, pls see the FAQs and sticky threads in Arthroplasty Central.

Any way, be mindful of the fact that Stenum Hospital marketed their services for many years as being the "fastest" ADR available. I recall that they offered a specific time attributed to their speedy ADRs, but I don't have that handy. But this is language from their site in 2006:

"...Today’s global community has seen a significantly increasing demand for quicker and more expert solutions when it comes to disorders of the joints and spinal column..."

Their marketing tactics have changed many times, since their sales reps in the US are highly compensated and are motivated financially to proactively perform damage control. They do read these posts!

For the record, Stenum is the ONLY institution on this planet that I recommend patients stay away from because of the reasons mentioned. Drill into the links, ask around.
__________________
"Harrison" - info (at) adrsupport.org
Fell on my ***winter 2003, Canceled fusion April 6 2004
Reborn June 25th, 2004, L5-S1 ADR Charite in Boston
Founder & moderator of ADRSupport - 2004
Founder Arthroplasty Patient Foundation a 501(c)(3) - 2006
Creator & producer, Why Am I Still Sick? - 2012
Donate www.arthropatient.org/about/donate
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  #5  
Old 05-10-2011, 06:28 AM
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trkdoc714 trkdoc714 is offline
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I had successful surgery by Dr. Ritter-Lang on March 27th, 2009. I ignored (but investigated) the personal vendettas being posted on this and other forums and went to Stenum with the confidence I had chosen the surgeon with the most experience.

For the record, Dr. R-L will perform up to 5 surgeries on Fridays. Other surgeons are performing surgeries at Stenum on Fridays too. On 3/27/09 there were 5 surgeries for the "US" patients. Surgeries began at 8 AM. I was last and mine began at 4 PM. As of last month, ALL of the 5 patients are doing great (we keep in touch).

I think Harrison's quoted statement by Stenum on speed was aimed at diagnosis and treatment and not a speedy surgical procedure.

I doubt the Stenum bashing will ever end on this or other forums. The forum format doesn't provide the proper environment for a surgeon's peer review. All it provides is for continuation of the same, tired accusations and embellished rumors accumulated over the years.

If I had to do it all over again, I would, without hesitation or reservation go back to Stenum.

If anyone would care to discuss my experiences, I'd be happy to share them.

Bob
__________________
04/06 L5/S1 Rupture
05/06 MRI shows DDD @ L2-S1
06/06 Diskectomy/ Laminotomy L5/S1
04/07 Recurrent Disc L5/S1
4 Ortho and 1 Neuro Surgeon, 5 MRIs, 1 EGM, 1 Myleogram & 11 EDIs later:
03/27/09 L4/5 & L5/S1 Maverick disc at Stenum
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  #6  
Old 05-10-2011, 10:02 AM
CP7959 CP7959 is offline
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First let me say I am happy that Bob had successful surgery. It's always good to see someone come out on the other side pain free.

As with Bob I ignored all the "bad press" and made my own decision. I actually followed Bob's experience and success. One of which helped me be more comfortable with my decision to go to Stenum.

What I can tell you is there where 6 surgeries my Friday. Ritter-Lang was the only surgeon, Dr. Z. was on vacation. My roommate was #1 and went in just after 10:00am. There were complications with the 2nd patient (Lumbar) which moved my time to 3:30pm, I was #3. I was in recovery within the hour (2 level ADR). The last patient was wheeled into recovery at 7:00pm.

I do talk to a few from my group, which are still having problems. But I did here one was doing very well.

As I stated earlier Ritter-Lang is probably a good surgeon. My gut tells me he's quick when he needs to be with out regard to the outcome. Something no Doctor should practice.

I had a life altering experience, so rightfully I'm upset. I still have my pre and post op films that show nothing was done. Only discs where removed and ADR installed.

More than anything I wish I listened to the "nay sayers". I would have stayed in the states for my health care needs. Based on having 4 cervical surgeries at home, I have had no problems with any of them.

As for "Stenum bashing", that right should be reserved for anyone that actually went there. However, someone like Harrison has the knowledge of many and his opinions are of value. So I am greatful when he shares information.
__________________
CP

Fusion C6/C7 - 2/2002
Foramenotomy 1/2004 - C5/C6 right side
Stenum M6 - 4/2009 - C4/C5, C5/C6
US Prestige ST - 12/2009 - C3/C4
Revision to Fusion 4/2009 - C5/C6 M6
Auto fuse of M6 at C4/C5 - determined after Xray on 3/2011.
Current - Fused at 3 levels C4/5/6/7, ADR C3/C4
Lumbar L5/S1 Annular tear - pain started 8/2009. MRI Hiz on 3/2011
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  #7  
Old 05-10-2011, 11:50 AM
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Harrison Harrison is offline
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Angry

Bob, your mention of personal vendettas, bashing, tired accusations and embellished rumors sounds like a subjective complaint. If there are any misstatements or inaccuracies from or anyone, I’d like to know about them.

I’ve committed too much time researching and posting these facts, so I am annoyed that they are called rumors. Has anyone else ever taken the time to be so diligent about the fact finding? Then sharing this information with the community? Perhaps that’s why Stenum (and perhaps other) clinics don’t like what I have to say.

And getting back to your point:

I think Harrison's quoted statement by Stenum on speed was aimed at diagnosis and treatment and not a speedy surgical procedure.

I wish you were correct, but you are not. If I have time, I’ll find their old marketing language that boasted of the “quick” ADR procedures.

Any way, here’s a related topic that includes the “same old tired” conversation!
__________________
"Harrison" - info (at) adrsupport.org
Fell on my ***winter 2003, Canceled fusion April 6 2004
Reborn June 25th, 2004, L5-S1 ADR Charite in Boston
Founder & moderator of ADRSupport - 2004
Founder Arthroplasty Patient Foundation a 501(c)(3) - 2006
Creator & producer, Why Am I Still Sick? - 2012
Donate www.arthropatient.org/about/donate
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  #8  
Old 05-10-2011, 07:13 PM
annapurna annapurna is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,646
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In hopes of stopping another Stenum argument, I'd like to stand this whole discussion on its head.

Peter, I'd like to challenge you on your decision of ADR type ahead of ADR surgeon. This forum has more than ample evidence that proper placement and the right surgeon is more likely to dictate outcome than ADR type. Looking over the history you posted back in November, you look like a middle of the road candidate. Not so bad that you really should only be looking at the very best surgeons but definitely enough going on that you can't afford to go see the neighboorhood spine surgeon. Instead of limiting yourself to just Boeree and Ritter-Lang, why not ask who you like, who you can afford and who you can get to? Those two might end up on the top of the list thinking about it that way but at least you'd be confident that you've chosen the best you could rather than made your decision around a device.

I'll admit to a bias against the M6. It's relevant that I have the bias but the reasons are a little lengthy to explain. On the other hand, I also have a bias for finding the best surgeon and waking up from surgery confident that the person who had his/her fingers in me was the best I could find.
__________________
Laura - L5S1 Charitee
C5/6 and 6/7 Prodisc C
Facet problems L4-S1
Knee, Shoulder, Toe, Finger, Elbow Problems

Jim - no spine problem but lots of other fun medical challenges

"There are many Annapurnas in the lives of men" Maurice Herzog
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  #9  
Old 05-10-2011, 07:21 PM
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trkdoc714 trkdoc714 is offline
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Posts: 137
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Harrison,

It should be understood that your research on Stenum did not include Stenum's side. Stenum will not violate patient confidentiality at any time. I find it difficult to digest as truth any conclusion that doesn't weigh both sides of a subject.

The problem with condemning any surgeon in a forum such as this is there is no peer review. All readers can go by is the patient's story. There may have been pathologies or anomolies that the surgeon had to work around. These reviews could only be decided by surgeons that have been in similar situatiuons.

Stenum has helped many patients. I would imagine they have at least the same success/ failure rates as any orthopedic hospital in the world.

CP, I am truly sorry your surgery at Stenum didn't give you the same relief as mine. I wasn't there when you were. I do know there is a second surgeon (Dananberg sp?) that performs surgeries on Fridays as well. I remember having my choice of he or Dr. R-L. Dr. Ritter-Lang's experience won that decision. I hope you find pain free living soon.

Bob
__________________
04/06 L5/S1 Rupture
05/06 MRI shows DDD @ L2-S1
06/06 Diskectomy/ Laminotomy L5/S1
04/07 Recurrent Disc L5/S1
4 Ortho and 1 Neuro Surgeon, 5 MRIs, 1 EGM, 1 Myleogram & 11 EDIs later:
03/27/09 L4/5 & L5/S1 Maverick disc at Stenum
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  #10  
Old 05-10-2011, 08:44 PM
CP7959 CP7959 is offline
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Posts: 43
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Bob,

I have been fortunate, things have gotten better for me. I waited a year after my Stenum surgery to see if things would work out, but I didn't get lucky. I had my M6 removed, osteophytes cleaned up, then fused. I felt immediate relief after the surgery. In fact I was working at my desk the next day. The surgery was here in the states. My neck will never be 100%, but seeing I had 5 cervical surgeries, I'm doing pretty good.

My surgeon told me what he seen in there from my Germany procedure, but I'll let that go. He did however say the disk had good placement.

This has always been my issue with Ritter-Lang, if he had taken the time and did a proper decompression, it would have saved me a lot of time, pain and money.

Anna no argument here, just frustration over my experience. I'll stop beating this horse.
__________________
CP

Fusion C6/C7 - 2/2002
Foramenotomy 1/2004 - C5/C6 right side
Stenum M6 - 4/2009 - C4/C5, C5/C6
US Prestige ST - 12/2009 - C3/C4
Revision to Fusion 4/2009 - C5/C6 M6
Auto fuse of M6 at C4/C5 - determined after Xray on 3/2011.
Current - Fused at 3 levels C4/5/6/7, ADR C3/C4
Lumbar L5/S1 Annular tear - pain started 8/2009. MRI Hiz on 3/2011
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