Bad news found out suddenly ...

[Discinterested]

Originally Posted by Harrison

Brian, if you search Neodisc, pls share with us your impression of the outcomes. I have not done this in a while. That said, I've talked to a few patients with disastrous outcomes. I don't think the product is on the market -- I'll do a quick check and add another post.

Sorry, i have never heard of a disastrous outcome with the Neodisc, but understand there were concerns (from forum members) regarding biofilm and HO risks with the design of the disc. A girl on this forum had the device implanted by Pimenta in 2010 and her most recent post in 2012 suggests she was very pleased with it. I had no idea of the disastrous outcomes and wonder if they could be worse than some of the other ADR failures. There are hundreds of Neodiscs out there including multilevel and I am surprised by the silence.

A little further research to see if the disc is still on the market and I think you are right. I only did a quick check before posting my above post and found a 2014 document suggesting a Dr Neel Anand uses it. I revisited it and it appears they are quoting old information. Thank you for taking the time to pick me up on that.

It appears the device completed FDA study but the "...sponsor of the study has[had] decided not to move forward with an FDA submission for approval" If I find out any further more up to date information I will let you know.

[Harrison]

Here's one adverse event with the Neodisc: MAUDE Adverse Event Report: NUVASIVENEODISCNONE

Lauren, any word on next steps?

[laurenmiddleton1]

Thank you everyone for you well wishes.

Yes my surgeon actually had a family emergency (death in his family) that is why I had not heard back from him.

But my surgery is now scheduled for next Weds (4/30)

I really wont even consider replacing this AD with another one, I believe the best plan of action is to remove it and then do a Fusion w/ cadaver bones at C4 & C5. I just feel like if it failed the first time, for whatever reason I don't want to take the risk again.

Still not sure why it moved in the first place, it was fine for at least 2-3 years and then started slipping out. But I just don't feel comfortable putting another one in. My husband is in agreement. I know the fusion will put more strain on my C3 and the fusion at C5 & C6. I also know it will limit my mobility in my neck but I would always have the thought in mind .. "is it moving" ... "has it slipped again" .... You know what I mean???

[jss]

Lauren,

That is good news; getting the surgery scheduled one week from today.

Here is a thought. You, like me, have DDD seeming moving both up and down your spine. (I have 2 ADRs and 2 fusions) One thing Harrison harps on, and I'm a little surprised that he hasn't mentioned it in this thread, is infection as a cause of DDD. Had I been aware of that specific etiology of spine disease at the time of my third spine surgery, I certainly would have had them test for an infection. I would encourage you to discuss this with your surgeon; the possibility of an undetected infection causing a domino of DDD in your spine. If that turns out to be the cause, he might have a treatment plan that will stop any further levels from incurring DDD.

Congratulations on getting a surgery date, and good luck next Wednesday. We'll be pulling for you.

Good luck, Jeff

[Harrison]

Jeff, yes, thanks for reminding me of the obvious -- I suppose some folks get tired of me ringing the infection bell. But it's often the cause of implant failures.

Lauren, unfortunately, most spine doctors will tell you that they know what a biofilm is, but the reality is that they don't have the diagnostic equipment, expertise, methods, time (or even interest) to test implants for biofilms that contribute to failures. Some may say, "yeah, we can have it cultured." And that's the wrong answer -- testing a device for failure is more involved than that.

That's why earlier in the topic I asked about the experience of your surgeon. It's super-important that your surgeon has done a significant number of these revisions -- can you tell me how many? Though your situation seems dire, I would be wary if he did less than "X." What that number should be is often debated; but if it's less than 20 or 30 I would be concerned. If it is, pls PM me and let me know...maybe I can help.

[Discinterested]

Harrison, that failed Neodisc is indeed terrible. It does though have hallmarks of being caused by an infection, and may not have been a fault of the disc itself. I recall reading about the failure of a metal disc on this forum that failed in a similar way, where the bone rotted away and it was found to be caused by an infection of the surgical site with the Staph bacteria. Well the neodisc was withdrawn from the market and there will have been reasons. I regret suggesting the Neodisc for what it is worth because I failed to research the latest and Lauren deserves better than that half-heartedness. My point, or one of them was that there are discs that have a fixing which in Laurens case might give some peace of mind about the same thing not happening again.

Lauren I understand your decision. Your previous fusions have proven to have worked well and so every reason to expect a good fusion from the revision and of course there will be no concerns about anything slipping forward again. I wish you the very best and please be very careful. Sorry to have gummed up your thread with junk posts. Personally, I think after a fright like this I would take the fusion and never look back at ADR. You know I would rather my own L4-S1 had a solid fusion than these apparent mickey mouse M6's. I think about them every time I lift anything, including my kids which I wouldn't have to do if they were fused. Yeah way to go Lauren and best wishes for the surgery.

[drewrad]

Brian, don't you think you'd also start to think about your adjacent level l3-l4 getting torn back eventually by fusing l4-s1 as a Mickey Mouse procedure than foresaking your mobility?

The younger you are, the more risk a fusion poses which is why I still voice my stubborn concern for Lauren getting bamboo spine of the neck at 36. Not to be mean, it's a tough spot, but I want to challenge the idea. There have been last minute fusion cancellations and switch to ADR.

[Kelly4ADR]

Lauren,

I hope you are at peace (as much as you can be) with your decision. Ultimately, you, your husband and your surgeon need to be comfortable with it. I'm sure anyone posting here has your best interests in mind when posting their opinions.

I'll be praying that you have a week of peace, and no anxiety or apprehension about your surgery. I'll pray that if this is not the right decision for you, that will be made very clear and I'll pray for a safe and successful surgery and outcome for you. Please keep us posted.

Rest in the fact that there are no absolutes in this decision, no right or wrong, since no one can tell the future or predict surgical outcomes. No matter how much clinical data is out there, there is only one "life of Lauren". No one can say do this or that, your life is unique as well as your situation. Only you know what fits for you. And many many many people do great with a cervical fusion.

Blessings

[Discinterested]

Brian, don't you think you'd also start to think about your adjacent level l3-l4 getting torn back eventually by fusing l4-s1 as a Mickey Mouse procedure than foresaking your mobility?

My M6 disks look very small in my spine. I am tall with a large spine and the M6's look way too small. I do intend to start a thread at some point because I have a lot to say about them. I did think about the mobility issue and the stresses that a fusion would have done for the L3/4 which is why I did go for the ADR. I would not actually have gone for a fusion at the time but would have rather just suffered my dehydrated disks. But after the surgery and I saw the Xrays I just broke down as I was hoping to see a real textbook fit. They are not though. They look awful and are a mickey mouse effort for the size of my spine. The good thing is that if I get spondylotic bridging/autofusion I should end up with a very strong natural fusion as there is plenty of area around the perimeter of the disc for a strong fixing, as long as there is no bone wax. This is food for a long long discussion so please wait until i start my own thread. So I only wish they were fused because I think in my case the M6's are a poor fit and I am concerned about the quality of the bone, because the bone is softer towards the centre where the discs are. I have some issues with the design and testing of the M6 too.

If I was fused at L4 to S1 and required surgery later on at L3/4 I would have an ADR. If I did that and it slipped forward and I was lucky to still be alive I would have it fused.

The younger you are, the more risk a fusion poses which is why I still voice my stubborn concern for Lauren getting bamboo spine of the neck at 36. Not to be mean, it's a tough spot, but I want to challenge the idea. There have been last minute fusion cancellations and switch to ADR.

There have been last minute fusion cancellations, but maybe not for a revision of a horrific failing of an ADR. The surgical site may have a lot of scar tissue, and perhaps even more if a replacement ADR was fitted, making a third revision extremely risky if it came about. I hope you do keep challenging the idea because I agree that if there was a good enough disk available that would not fail like this it might provide for a more active life. I feel I have taken a beating and can fight no more. Perhaps the advice should be sought of an experienced pioneering surgeon, like Dr Luiz Pimenta.

[laurenmiddleton1]

I appreciate EVERYONE's opinion. That is why I post here. To learn things I may not know.


I want to thank everyone again for your well wishes and your advice!!! No matter which way we decide to go, you have all give me food for thought!!!!

THANK YOU!!!!!