Allergic to Chromium, Nickel and Cobalt in metal

[drewrad]

All I know is that in my case with increasing amounts titanium introduced into the blood sample, there was no increase in reactivity. It was low across all levels. Not so with nickel, aluminum and chromium.

[Old Codger]

Originally Posted by drewrad

All I know is that in my case with increasing amounts titanium introduced into the blood sample, there was no increase in reactivity. It was low across all levels. Not so with nickel, aluminum and chromium.

I wonder whether the problem lay with not only with a level of reactivity, the problem(s) may start when a certain level of the metal is reached within the body. This may be different for individuals, so that a certain fixed number of the level is not able to be used. Something as simple as the amount of water that one drinks, to have a running detoxification, or some other unknown factor, may be a factor in how long it is before trouble is evident.

IMHO, we can only know when the problem(s) break out of hiding. It took me about fifteen years to reach the level (I assume) where I broke out with an eczema/itching that is a recognized symptom. Until then, all I had was neuropathy (that I can recognize now, I think) and a low energy level (maybe called CFS -chronic fatigue syndrome for some) that was masked with my Lyme disease for maybe ten years.

But knowing that we have a more than "natural" amount of whatever metal that is under consideration (titanium ?) would be a good place to start to think about that that metal could cause trouble. The way that I see things, this knowledge given by a Metal ION test, may be only good for one that has had a certain metal already implanted (like myself), not for a perspective implantee, except for the perspective implantee to know his "base" reading.

Wishing all wellness!!!
Old Codger

[Old Codger]

Well, I sent in blood samples to Orthopedic Analysis lab in Chicago on Wednesday for their Orthopedic Panel 2 and Metal ION tests. It will take a week to ten days to learn the results. I will let you know then.

I did a Google search on the words, "metal allergy forum". Wow! on the number of hits.

But some of the tales about what the med docs do or don't do to their patients, is absolutely heart-rendering. The most obvious is the total lack of adhering to the FDA labels in relation to metal allergy!!!

I was somewhat upset on the amount of time, March 10, that I have to wait to see my orthopedic surgeon, who did the implantation. But since he has said, through his assistant, that he doesn't believe that my problem is an allergy to the metal he implanted, I am glad that I will be able to present him with my O.A. test results.

I went to dinner at a restaurant last night with my wife (beat the Valentine Day crowd), and forgot about my allergy problem, to even stainless steel. Then, I remembered when I started to scratch my hand in about fifteen minutes after using the s.s. cutlery... and had more and harder cramps in my feet last night after going to bed. I feel just lousy this morning!!! Oh! I did eat a bowl of chocolate ice cream for dessert, which cocoa is a no-no. So easy to forget! This probably helped give the cramps, as well as touching the s.s. cutlery.

I firmly think that I am seeing a very steep uphill climb on the curve of my metal allergy symptoms now, as time goes by.

I just hope that the Ct-scan, MRI and X-rays coming up, show that my fusion of C4, 5, 6 did in fact take, and the metal can come out. It has been almost sixteen years.

What an odessy!!!
Wishing all wellness!
Old Codger

[Old Codger]

Well, I received the results of my Metal LTT done by Orthopedic Analysis lab in Chicago, yesterday late afternoon, and have been studying the results so that I can explain them to you in a brief and understandable way.

I made a video of my efforts of study in a purely therotical sense, and have posted same here at

Turbo Encabulator

Please use 1:49 minutes of your time for a very informative session.

And do not allow matters to get you down.

Wishing all wellness!

Old Codger

[Harrison]

Codger,

OK, so I get the joke you are trying to convey. What are the results?

[Old Codger]

I apologize! I just couldn't help myself. The frustrated little boy just had to come out of me.

In the process of researching for some information about magnetism with nickel, chromium and cobalt (which I have read can be magnetized as steel/iron can be magnetized), which method may lend itself to my possible needing to test the screws that are in my cervical spine when they are taken out, as to type of alloy, I came across that skit of nonsensical description of a very modern piece of machinery, and thought that is what happens when we rely on the representatives of modern technology, we get a lot of double-talk... and I thought of my frustration that has happened with my trying very hard to know if I am reactive (allergic) to some metals. I really, really, really tried very hard to get the best sample of my blood and lymphocytes to the lab for their best lab result, and spent some good money to do so. It appears to not have happened, and I find my results suspect!!!

My frustration revolves around the sentence on Orthopedic Analysis lab's web order form, where it is stated, "We can accept kits from anywhere that can ship to Chicago, IL, USA, overnight. (we need to receive the blood within approximately 24 hours for the cells to be alive enough for us to do the testing.) [My emphasis]

I had the blood drawn at the local hospital's lab, and I personally took the specimen to the FEDEX office. I did not read the O.A. lab results for the Metal Sensitivity, Orthopedic Panel 2 Testing sent by email until about closing time for the lab on Friday, 2/20/15. On that report, it shows the specimen collected on 2/10/2015 at 12:39 PM (noonish), which is correct. Then, it shows the Sample as being received 2/12/2015 at 9:45AM... longer than the 24 hours specified on their order form.

I seem that I have some questioning to do about the running of the test and the results. I find the results suspect!!!

In any event, that report shows me as being "Highly Reactive" to Nickel (only)... and no other metals being even "Mildly" reactive, nor any in the "Reactive" column.

Yet, my dermatologist's patch test showed me very reactive to chromium, nickel and cobalt... and I have a bad case of eczema/rash/itching that continues daily. And I have some bad neuropathy in my toes and feet, which is what I had in an earlier episode of metal in my body (circa early 1980's), which dissipated when I had the metal taken out of my body back then. I remembered this earlier metal connection and the neuropathy only a few weeks ago.

I could have cried from the frustration, or gotten angry, but when I came across that skit, I chose laughing. I hope that you can understand.

Wishing all wellness!

Old Codger

[AKactivemom]

I have confirmed allergies (patch allergy testing on placed on the skin by an Asthma & Immunology Dr.) to nickel & 3 others less well known. I did NOT react at all to Titanium or Titanium Oxide or any polymers/plastic combos. If I'm planning to go to Germany for the M6 lumbar ADR, should I have further allergy testing like the blood tests that are mentioned above or is the patch allergy test enough?
Thanks!

[Old Codger]

I just had a discussion with the Lab Director of Orthopedic Analysis lab, which did my Metal-LTT. I thank the Director for being tolerate of me to explain various aspects of the testing.

What I heard was a bit different than what is found on their website, ie, the sample must be received "within approximately 24 hours for the cells to be alive enough for us to do the testing".

The Director said that they show 24 hours on their website to get people to not delay with getting the sample to them, that on an actual basis they have until about 48 hours from the blood being drawn, and that the real criteria is what the Known Stimulate (PHA) shows upon testing with the blood sample.

In my case, my Known Stimulate reading of 25.8 was "Highly Reactive", which means that my lymphocytes were definitely "alive and kicking" (my everyday terminology), and the test would give good results.

I am "Highly Reactive" to nickel with a score of 11.0, but not even showing a "Mild" [floor reading of 2.0]reaction to the other metals tested... cobalt, chromium, molybdenum, vanadium, zirconium, iron or titanium alloy particles, nor the bone cement particles.

However, he did mention that they have gotten reports from people with equivocal results (as mine were except for nickel) that when the metal was removed from the patients bodies, the symptoms in question did dissipate away.
And he said to remember that a patch test is entirely different type of test than a Metal LTT, that there has not been a correlation of the two tests results. One is on top of the skin, and the other is within the skin and with a very much different environment.

That to me means people can be reactive (allergic) to the metals, even though it cannot be duplicated with modern scientific tests. IMHO, symptoms seem to be the best basis for removal or not of the metal, IMHO, and tests may not be a good forecaster of what will come about with putting metals within the body. [It really means that our scientific masterminds are not the Lord, as they would have us believe.... that medicine is still lots of "art", just opinion/guesswork. ] Except, IMHO, people's reaction to nickel, via jewelery or whatever, falls under that catagory from body symptoms.

I do hear some clicking now, for the last few months, in my cervical spine every so often as I turn my head. Which I take to mean that perhaps I may be getting some vertebra bone against vertebra bone. I heard this before my arm started to hurt back in 1998, before my cervical fusion. In which case, I may be needing some ADR, or whatever, but of a non-metalic nature, hopefully. Unless I think in terms of perhaps titanium ( which may have the least allergetic effects, at least for the larger percentage of people) with putting up with some side effects until the vertebra fuse and I can get the metal taken out once again. And if the vertebra do not fuse, I am s------, maybe literally.

But remember, the screws may be a different alloy than the plate or whatever, because of "sheer force" considerations. I found that a Google search will turn up some interesting information about alloys, etc, such as there are at least 38 alloys of titanium, or what other countries' doctors think about "nickel allergy", or "chromium allergy".

I am going to opt for having the metal removed from within me, and hope that I am not seeing (hearing) bad things going on within my body needy more intervention in the future.

And, I will hope that a material will be developed that, at least more, if not all, bodies will tolerate better than the present crop of materials, especially for those who need the fixture to remain in their body.
I do not know what else that I might say about metal allergies, except to give the link for version # 2 of that "Turbo Encabulator"... and, I am sure that if I did that, then you very good and kind folks would throw me off this forum for sure.

However, I promise to continue to read what all are doing, or tolerating, and that I will post what happens after I get the metal removed from my body, probably some time in March (I hope).

I thank Harrison for all that he has done and is doing!!!
Wishing all wellness!
Old Codger

P.S. AKactivemom, if I were having to wear your shoes with what I have learned of late, I definitely would do Metal-LTT testing. It may not be a definite answer unless you were in one of the three reactive catagories. IMHO, if the test shows reactive(allergic) to a particular metal, you would most probably be reactive/allergic to that metal and should avoid it. If the results shows an equivocal result, as mine did, you would still have to gamble on the metal that goes into your body. But you will have increased the knowledge/odds in your favor of selecting the better answer. Good luck to you!!!

[Old Codger]

For those awaiting more information about my disposition with my surgeon, I apologize!

I am the key witness in a trial on a burglary that is requiring my attendance in court the same day that I was to confer with my orthopedic surgeon about getting the metal taken out of my body.

My appointment with the surgeon will be delayed for two weeks.

Wishing all wellness!
Old Codger

[Old Codger]

Well, that trial is over, thankfully! My side lost. I see now that some more investigation should have taken place before the trial had taken place.

I had my appointment with my orthopedic surgeon on this past Tuesday, two days ago. After reviewing the CT-scan, MRI and X-rays of my cervical spine, he said that he will take out the "titanium" plate and "titanium" screws that is on my cervical spine, based upon the logic that I had metal implanted for bone fractures many years earlier, had developed the same neuropathy, then had it dissipate after the metal was taken out. He did not think the implants were the cause of the neuropathy (along with some other symptoms) that I have been experiencing for the last fifteen years. But he conceded that the only way to tell if the metal was the cause is to remove it, and see what develops.

The surgeon pointed out the much higher risk factor for taking out the embedded mesh (that held the cadaver bone in place until the spine fused), which would take at least two more hours of being under the anestheia and get very, very close to nerves, and the mesh probably would need to be pried loose, so, we agreed that since the mass (weight) of the mesh is so much less than the plate and five screws that I might be able to tolerate the mesh remaining in my body.

The surgical is now being planned for Wednesday, April 1, and should take only 30 to 45 minutes. I will be able to go home that same day, and have no restrictions as to what I may want to do.

Along with the neuropathy, I have been experiencing horrible cramps in my feet and lower legs. At times, the cramping was so bad/hard, that I thought that the bones would break, but mostly of an intensity to just interfere with my sleep. I reflected during one of the cramp episodes last night that I had eaten a goodly portion of chocolate and oats yesterday, and that these are said to be higher in chromium than most foods. As reported to you, I was reactive to chromium on a "patch" test done in November by my dermatologist. I am wondering this morning whether my chromium allergy is somehow causing the nocturnal feet and lower leg cramps. I will have to make my diet bland for awhile to see what happens. Perhaps, my nickel reactivity may also be a factor in the cramping.

IMHO, per usual in the U.S., medical opinion is driven by money, and this is so true too, about implants. There are at least thirty-five (35) manufacturers in the U.S. that make implants of one nature or other, and then, there are the surgeons'/dentists' incomes to consider also. Most lay persons like to think that "docs" can replace worn out or damaged parts ( I did too until I learned my lesson ), and never stop to think of the old adage that human bodies do not appreciate foreign objects in them. But when necessary, such is better than the alternative... and "when necessary" are the key words, which should be re-written as "when absolutely necessary". However, we are each made from a different mold and our bodies respond differently. IMHO, more testing is needed before an implant is put into someone's body with the intention of leaving it there, and maybe, those tests need to become more sophisticated and better, also.

Wishing all wellness!

Old Codger