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The Big File All issues not easily categorized in the above forums are here. Comments on general health, diet, "getting comfortable," and more are here.


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  #11  
Old 03-30-2010, 07:26 PM
annapurna annapurna is offline
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I'd also worry about forming an air bubble during ascent which then is ejected out of the annulus of the M6 and into your system. If I remember correctly there's a form of embolism that is similar to that, pneumothorax if I've got the name correct.

I'd suggest that you constrain yourself to single tank dives with no decompression allowed. Go ahead and include safety stops as needed but I wouldn't do anything that required you to decompress. Can you tell I used to do quite a bit of diving years ago? I'd imagine that the diffusion into and out of the fluid that flows into the M6 will be somewhat poor, that's why I'm suggesting shallow and short dives and watching your surface intervals to limit build-up so you never need decompression.
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Laura - L5S1 Charitee
C5/6 and 6/7 Prodisc C
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Jim - C4/5, C5/6, L4/5 disk bulges and facet damage, L4/5 disk tears, currently using regenerative medicine to address

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  #12  
Old 03-31-2010, 09:17 AM
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jss jss is offline
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Thanks again for your thoughts annapurna. Your conclusions matched mine exactly. My decision to descend no more than 33 feet was because at that depth, no decompression is required.

I got to dive Cozumel and Oahu. I had a good run.
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  #13  
Old 04-26-2010, 04:31 PM
tkdodger tkdodger is offline
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Greetings JSS!
Congratulations on the new discs! I wish I was there. I found your post interesting for the following:
When the sheath is installed, whatever fraction of the atmosphere that is present is what is inside the M6 when it is implanted in the host (me). Over time, the hosts extracellular fluid (ECF) displaces the air within the M6 sheath as the M6 fills with ECF.
The Spinal Kinetics web site provides that the adr is filled with a saline solution. Therefore, whatever "atmosphere" is in there should be extremely small, and is replaced by ecf through the pumping effect during device motion. While I wouldn't want to be the guinea pig for testing the device under water, articulation of your neck should circulate the fluids.
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  #14  
Old 09-12-2010, 05:01 PM
Zymergist Zymergist is offline
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WOW,

I personally am shocked that they would not fill the vented space with saline.

As a trained Tek diver and breathing gas blender I have studied a bit on diving physiology. Why they make the Nitrox distinction at 135 is beyond me as the recommended MOD (max Operating Depth) for Nitrox I (32% O2) is 111 ft (and for Nitrox II at 36% is 95ft, other mixes have differnt depths). Below that your PPO2 (partial Pressure of O2) is over 1.4 putting you at risk for O2 toxicity and CNS seizures. (lot more info on this topic, but this is the base recreational limit) These facts lead me to question what they actualy know about hyperbaric physiology.

The problem I see with the device being filled with air is that they have introduced an embolus in the spinal area. As you descend the gas will compress drawing fluid in to the space (hopefully with no blockage of the ports!). When you ascend the gas will expand pushing either fluid or gas back out depending on relative position of the port.

There is some documentation of pulmonary gas embolism combined with inert gas saturation well within no decompression limits (coughing at depth and ascending while coughing over pressurizing the aveoli in the lungs) causing type 2 DCS with no documented survival. Basically the free gas bubble acted as a nucleating event causing dissolved gas to come out of solution.

Sorry if I went a bit deep (no pun intended...) on the topic, but I am an info geek.

I personally question the safety of diving with this device unless the gas displacement can be verified. If you do dive I would stay VERY shallow (<30ft) and also not go over 30% of your bottom time. If you are Nitrox certified and it is available this would add a safety margin (But I would still use air calcs) This thought is strictly related to any gas in the M-6. Any fluid in the M-6 should not really be exposed to gas absorption (except the gas in the device) as there is not realy circulation. If there is no gas in the device there will be little to no fluid movemend and the only gas absorption would be cell to cell through the vents. For comercial saturation diving this would be a problem, but not recreational.

As it is past the trip date how did it go and did you dive?
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  #15  
Old 09-12-2010, 08:14 PM
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Harrison Harrison is offline
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This perspective is appreciated and helpful. Thx for thinking it through a bit with us. IMHO, in relation to artificial disc design -- less is more -- I've mentioned my views on simplicity of design and I am sure people are bored with it by now.

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  #16  
Old 09-14-2010, 12:46 AM
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Tyler Tyler is offline
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Jeff -

Didn't this issue get addressed and resolved in another thread in which someone with engineering details (I can't remember their name) described the equilibration process?

Hope all's well with you!

Best,
Tyler
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  #17  
Old 06-10-2012, 11:13 PM
chrisdl chrisdl is offline
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Jeff:

Just the discussion I was looking for. Jeff, have you done any deeper dives since that trip, or found out any additional information?
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