ADRSupport Community  

Go Back   ADRSupport Community > General Discussion > International Assistance

International Assistance Any topics relating to traveling or communicating with international treatment locations are here.


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 01-23-2017, 12:25 PM
Ram_2L-ADR Ram_2L-ADR is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 12
Default European Medical Tourism - Dr Bertagnoli's International Patient Service through T. V

Hello Everyone,

I've just had a 2-Level ADR at C4-C5 & C5-C6 in Hong Kong. Prior to doing so I was looking at having my surgery in Germany under the care of Dr. Bertagnoli, unfortunately, this didn't turn out at all as planned.

16 days post my first exchange with T. Vicknair who handles Dr. Bertagnoli's online/international applications I still had no reply from them. Even though it was clearly stated in the e-mail sent to me, and following the gathering of all my medical information, that I would be receiving a response within 1 to 14 days.

In the meantime I luckily managed to find another doctor in HK which was amazing as described in my first post. However, after 16 days, and no response, I felt quite bothered by the fact that, had I not been this lucky and found a doctor in HK, I would still be waiting for a response from Dr Bertagnoli or T. Vicknair, and my spinal cord damage would simply reach a point of no return. With this in mind I sent a strongly worded e-mail to Tim Vicknair, and his response was simply, appalling. I want to leave my exchange with him online just to let you know the type of person you are dealing with.

Note: This is NOT meant to discredit Dr Bertagnoli's knowledge, talent and decades long of experience in the field. It is merely aimed at showing the lack of respect and manners held by the personnel handling his international patient service, namely European Medical Tourism's CEO T. Vicknair.


23/01/17 - 3:21 AM:
Myself to T. Vicknair

Dear Tim,

I'm extremely disappointed in your services. It has been more than 14 days now and I have yet to receive any form of response from yourself or professor Dr Bertagnoli.
You spend such a lengthy amount of time on your website defending yourselves from bad press, yet you do not seem to care much for the actual patients. Every doctor I saw considered my case critical and I was planning my trip to Germany hoping to get a response in the shortest delays given how fast you first replied to my issuing of information. Yet, here we are, more than 2 weeks later without the hint of a concern or a reply from your team or its leader. This is extremely concerning and shameful. I was lucky to finally find a doctor with lengthy experience in ADR last week who took my case seriously and booked me in for operation within the next few days. I was lucky to have found him as I now can at least hope to perhaps regain full sensations and strength in my right arm and avoid any additional risk of becoming tetraplegic.

Once again I am really disappointed in your lack of concern and total disregard for a suffering patient, may he not be yours. I see it as a true slap in the face of the Hippocratic Oath. You could have at least had the curtesy and decency to reject my case and inform me of it.

Regards,

--
R


__________________________________________________ ___________________




23/01/17 - 3:57AM:
T. Vicknair to Me

Mr. R,



We do not control the doctor’s schedule. He is extremely busy and there is a reason for that. You may look beyond your own pain and realize there are other patients who are also in pain.and

you are at no immediate risk of quadriplegia. Had you been we would have recommend emergency care.

But you may ask yourself why this doctor is quickly available. You may not be as lucky as you think.



Tim




__________________________________________________ ___________________

23/01/17 - 4:12AM:
Myself to T. Vicknair

Shame on you for coming back to me with such a response.
You may not control the doctor's schedule but you do control your letters and the timeframe that you set "1 to 14 days" as mentioned in your email dated 8th January 2017.
I cannot believe that you would discredit a fellow doctor on the sole basis that he took my case rapidly when you couldn't. What kind of purely corporate and money oriented mindset must one have to respond in such a manner.
I am utterly appalled by such lack of etiquette and carelessness. If dr Bertagnoli does indeed hold similar regards his patients as you do I cannot but be glad that I didn't come all the way to Germany for my procedure.
Once again. Shame on you.

--
R

__________________________________________________ ___________________




23/01/17 - 4:18AM:
T. Vicknair to Me

Etiquette? Really. Why don’t you read this > I see it as a true slap in the face of the Hippocratic Oath. You could have at least had the curtesy and decency to reject my case and inform me of it.



We are the lucky ones. You are now permanently blocked.




__________________________________________________ ___________________



True my first e-mail was quite rough but understand my situation. Then again, once I saw the response, I was so relieved I didn't go through the process.. I just find it unfortunate and saddening when I see the greed and how much of an industry the medical world has become.
__________________

Ram
Numbness in right arm after house works end Sep 16
MRI showed compressed Spinal Cord in cervical spine in Dec 16
2 Level ADR on C4-C5 & C5-C6 on 17 Jan 17 in Hong Kong
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-23-2017, 10:59 PM
Harrison's Avatar
Harrison Harrison is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,877
Smile

Ram,

Wow, thanks for sharing. That was a very surprising and unprofessional response. I've not heard much about Tim for years. Last time (4-5 years ago), the situation created by a patient's interactions with him led to his banning from this community. What site were you banned from?

Please note: why is it that both you and Tim misspell the same word in the same way: curtesy?


I will leave this topic here, even though 99.9% of the international topics go to the international forum. I will clone this topic/

When you feel like it, please post in the post-op forum so we can track your progress and give you any support if needed!

Peace, healing and light to you in 2017! Happy Chinese New Year!
__________________
"Harrison" - info (at) adrsupport.org
Fell on my ***winter 2003, Canceled fusion April 6 2004
Reborn June 25th, 2004, L5-S1 ADR Charite in Boston
Founder & moderator of ADRSupport - 2004
Founder Arthroplasty Patient Foundation a 501(c)(3) - 2006
Creator & producer, Why Am I Still Sick? - 2012
Donate www.arthropatient.org/about/donate
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-24-2017, 12:40 AM
Ram_2L-ADR Ram_2L-ADR is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 12
Default

Hi Harrison,

Unprofessional indeed, I was really shocked at the way he was responding.. To be honest I'm not too sure what he meant by banned, but I'm guessing he blocked me from his e-mail or website. Also, I've noticed I've found difficulties joining spine surgery related forums, though not sure if that's directly linked..

With regards to the word "curtesy", thanks for pointing out the misspell from my part. With regards to why Tim wrote the same, I suppose because he copy pasted my comment in his last e-mail to make a point "I see it as a.."

thanks for your wishes, and Happy Chinese New Year to you too! Kind of perfect timing really.. gives me additional time to rest without affecting work too much!

I wrote another post about how my surgery went, but mistakenly put it in the "new members" section (still getting my head around the posting protocol), should I just remove it from there and put it in post-op?

Cheers!
__________________

Ram
Numbness in right arm after house works end Sep 16
MRI showed compressed Spinal Cord in cervical spine in Dec 16
2 Level ADR on C4-C5 & C5-C6 on 17 Jan 17 in Hong Kong
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-24-2017, 02:29 PM
annapurna annapurna is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,568
Default

I admit that it's been a lot of years since Laura got her 2nd cervical ADR with Pro-Spine but, back then, it wasn't necessary to work with Tim. In fact, we regarded Tim as a bit a flake and avoided using him for anything. Unless Pro-Spine now requires you to use Tim's services, there should be enough on this website and elsewhere on the web for you to not need the help Tim provides.
__________________
Laura - L5S1 Charitee
C5/6 and 6/7 Prodisc C
Facet problems L4-S1
Knee, Shoulder, Toe, Finger, Elbow Problems

Jim - no spine problem but lots of other fun medical challenges

"There are many Annapurnas in the lives of men" Maurice Herzog
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-26-2017, 06:24 AM
Ram_2L-ADR Ram_2L-ADR is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 12
Default

Hi annapurna,

Thankfully I actually managed to find a perfect doctor here in HK and didn't need to go to Germany.
But with regards to ProSpine, I actually tried to contact Dr. B directly from his website, and Tim was the one to reply, so I thought that was the normal protocol, or at least he made it seem like it was.
__________________

Ram
Numbness in right arm after house works end Sep 16
MRI showed compressed Spinal Cord in cervical spine in Dec 16
2 Level ADR on C4-C5 & C5-C6 on 17 Jan 17 in Hong Kong
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-22-2019, 10:18 PM
funcrew funcrew is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 42
Default

I've had a quite extensive correspondence with Tim Vicknair. He is a very knowledgable person on the topic of ADR, and is well worth talking to. Perhaps the flip side is that he reminds me very much of American evangelical Christians in their view of the Bible. In this narrative, Tim's employer Dr. Bertagnoli is the only source of valid information on ADR in the world. If the information didn't come from Dr. B, then it is by definition false. I think you can make a strong case that Dr. B is in fact numero uno, however there's a lot of smart guys worldwide working on this branch of technology. Tim V makes his living as a sales agent, so it's good to keep that in mind.
__________________
Age 56
Severe neck and back pain, 10 years+ on opiate pain meds every 4 hours, numbness and weakness in both arms and legs.
Evaluated by Dr Bertagnoli for ProDisc at L3L4, L4L5, L5S1, C5C6 and C6C7

Sept 4th, 2019: Completed 3 level CP-ESP at C4 thru C7 with Dr. Biren Desai in Cologne, Germany
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-11-2020, 03:46 AM
Fathub's Avatar
Fathub Fathub is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 156
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram_2L-ADR View Post
Hi annapurna,

Thankfully I actually managed to find a perfect doctor here in HK and didn't need to go to Germany.
But with regards to ProSpine, I actually tried to contact Dr. B directly from his website, and Tim was the one to reply, so I thought that was the normal protocol, or at least he made it seem like it was.
Smart Man Ram..........
__________________
Dec 1/15 - 3 level ADR from S1/L3 c/w 360 mobility preservation at L3/L4 for Spondylolisthesis done by Dr. Bertagnoli in Bogen GmbH.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
adr, bertagnoli, medical tourism, rude, vicknair

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
European Medical Tourism - Dr Bertagnoli's International Patient Service through T. V Ram_2L-ADR New Member Introductions 2 01-24-2017 12:38 AM
Medical Tourism Insurance Cheryl0331 International Assistance 2 04-20-2015 07:43 PM
medical tourism insurance Cheryl0331 Insurance Hell 0 04-20-2015 06:31 PM
International Medical Insurance Frankg Insurance Hell 0 06-04-2009 12:59 AM
International Patient Service Harrison The Big File 2 10-24-2005 10:52 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:16 AM.


© Copyright 2006-2017 ADRSupport.org All rights reserved.