No Surgery... Yet - Page 3

bwink23 · #21 02-22-2014, 06:55 AM

Ian,

Could you link a reference or case where an ADR has been placed in the thoracic area of the spine. I seriously have never heard of this being done. I've always thought L2/L3 was the highest level they could go for an ADR. Higher than that i believe your getting into the rib cage.

ian · #22 02-22-2014, 07:25 AM

I misspoke. I blame it on lack of sleep.

. He replaces discs from L1 down.
You can read more here: Dr. Thomas Bierstedt

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwink23

Ian,

Could you link a reference or case where an ADR has been placed in the thoracic area of the spine. I seriously have never heard of this being done. I've always thought L2/L3 was the highest level they could go for an ADR. Higher than that i believe your getting into the rib cage.

drewrad · #23 02-22-2014, 11:45 AM

Ian, I thought you'd be up in a plane today heading across the ocean. No?

ian · #24 02-22-2014, 12:21 PM

I depart LAX at 7:25 tonight. Didn't sleep a wink all night!

Quote:

Originally Posted by drewrad

Ian, I thought you'd be up in a plane today heading across the ocean. No?

drewrad · #25 02-26-2014, 02:51 AM

So... a couple interesting things I learned today and wanted to bounce off you guys.

First, I asked Zeegers about why he preferred the Activ L over the M 6. He told me the M 6 is a good disc, especially the decompression aspect inherent within it.

But, the M 6 can only go in one way, from the front. The Activ L can go in front or posterolateral as well if need be. Also, the real key to his preference was due to removing the ADR if it ever had to be taken out in the future. The M 6, while it can be removed, is much more difficult to take out. You have to have a skilled surgeon to do it and its tricky.

The Activ L is very easy to take out and has tools just for that purpose if necessary, making it very adaptable.

Anyways, he has more on that for me and is going to email me more stuff in the way of specs. Hope its helpful because I can't get Spinal Kinetics to call me back at all.

pittpete · #26 02-26-2014, 02:01 PM

I've read this about the Activ L also.
I believe after surgery for an ADR scar tissue causes the veins to adhere and makes it extremely difficult to move in case of any kind of revision.
dreward if you go to the Braun website you can see all the info on the activ L

bwink23 · #27 02-26-2014, 07:52 PM

Dr. Clavel did mention that he thought the Activ-L was a good disc and has used it a few times. He said that revisions get kind of a bad rap...He said the ones he did with the M6 weren't terribly difficult. Food for thought. If you have an L5/S1 disc issue with no other contraindications....the Activ-L has specific designs to better fit various sacral slopes at that level. Being Zeegers is well versed with that disc...i'm sure he'd have no issues with finding the correct configuration. With 2-levels of work in the lumbar and wanting to have an active work and lifestyle again....it was a no brainer to M6 my lumbar for the shock absorption alone....especially since i had to have the level below the M6 fused.

A good question to ask would be the ability for scar tissue to form....i've heard posterior approaches are prone to scar tissue formation and anterior approaches are far less. But, I don't know about this posterolateral approach. I wonder if they still have to cut the anterior ligament to get the disc in...If not, that would be a plus for the Activ-L, avoiding potential instability issues.

Dr. Clavel said if asked about the potential for instability after cutting that ligament with SpinalKinetics. They told him the inherent design of the M6 makes up for the potential instability that MIGHT be caused by cutting that ligament. WE ARE ALL GUINEA PIGS!!

WNB175 · #28 02-27-2014, 12:49 AM

I am following this thread to see how Kaiser is responding to you. I work at Kaiser in Northern California and am very curious where they stand regarding ADRs.

drewrad · #29 02-27-2014, 05:54 PM

So Kaiser yesterday told me, flat out, they don't put ADRs into people anymore. My Kaiser surgeon, Dr. Veoglei, said that they stopped about 6(I'm guessing now) years ago.

Here's my take on that. Kaiser is the most bureaucratic of all HMOs and thus, cost containment issues. Ergo, they have the most robotic statements to patients regarding their issues on what they can and cannot say(legal). Cost containment is paramount to the organization. Its how they stay in business. And with the FDA only allowing a one level... well, that only makes a guy like me more S out of luck. I am a multi-segmental. Thus, at 44, it appears I am in no man's land from an HMO perspective. A shame.

Kaiser is not a dr/patient organization. You need a PPO to get that. Kaiser, in a lot of ways, is like a cult. Those strange pink buildings almost have a Scientology feel, don't they? Anyway, I pushed and pushed my surgeon and he could only say what he was allowed to say. A guy like me, they're going to do steroid injections, they're going to prescribe any drug I want(I don't want any).

By the time Kaiser is completey finished with me, I will be an opiate addict and my back much more worse off with possible early fusion and a chain reaction of future fusions.

My only hope, for now, is learning as much as I can here and getting all the doctors(both overseas and here) opinions as to ALL my options. My goals are simple. I want to drive a car again without having to be the strange Driving Miss Daisy dude in the back. I want to sit at a restaurant with my wife. I want to be able to go to a movie theater and sit in a chair. I don't want to do triathalons. I just want to be a part of the human race again, and not be excluded from it. This isn't too much to ask, is it?

Even at Kaiser yesterday, there I am in the waiting room, a very healthy guy who can't sit down. Everyone is sitting down, all the sick people are sitting down quite fine it appears. I can't sit down. And there are no beds, so I'm standing or taking a knee. And since my doc was backed up an hour, I finally gave in and laid on the floor and had people walk around me!

This leg pain has been a journey and its one I will get to the end of eventually, but I don't think its going to be inside the giant pink buildings that gets me to where I need to go.

pittpete · #30 02-27-2014, 06:35 PM

Dreward, im going to say something you might want to hear.
This is not personal nor meant to insult anyone here or backpain sufferers in general.
You have a herniated disc that is causing you legpain.
You have an option as far as removing your legpain.
You can have a discectomy.
I've had 2 for legpain over the years.
Both times legpain was gone.
If I would've stopped playing football and basketball after my first surgery I might be in better shape now.
If I had quit smoking when I was younger, stretched more, built up my core etc. I might be better off.
I know many people who've had discectomies and are still doing OK today.
When we are unlucky enough to injure our spines we have to really work a lot harder then others and also keep it up.
I think we look for that magic surgery that will make us 100% and it probably will never happen because of the complexities in the human spine.
While ADR seems to be great, I think we think its one of those magic surgeries.
I'm speaking from experience and I know if I really worked hard I could manage better than I do. It's just hard to keep it up every day, every month, every year.
That's just my 2 cents bud.