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  #11  
Old 03-30-2016, 04:35 AM
mgossel mgossel is offline
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Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 23
Default Take a look at Dr. Clavel

Tom
I have done extensive research on all of the European surgeons and I would suggest that you do the same. I was planning on going with Dr. Bertagnoli until Cynlite told me all of the research she has done. It basically comes down to which type of disc you want implanted in you. From there, search all the possible surgeons that implant that disc. For me and after I got an extensive evaluation from Dr Zeegers, I decided to go with the M-6s. Dr Zeegers is very thorough and wrote a 37 page report on my back. He charged me 870 euros but it was extremely helpful. Since I had the evaluation, he suggested that the M-6s were the best fit for me. He doesn't implant M-6s so I thought that he was extremely honest and that he truly wanted to give me the best opinion and outcome and that he was not interested in just lining his pockets. He could have easily informed to get the type of discs he implants, but he didn't. Once you speak to him you will be amazed how honest he is and how he truly wants to help every patient understand their issues. Be prepared to give me massive amounts of information. Dr Bertagnoli, btw, only implants Prodiscs. I chose Dr Clavel from all the research that I have done and it happens to be the same surgeon that my pain management doctor suggested. You will see in this forum that there are several patients here that went to him for surgery. My surgery is scheduled for less than two weeks, but I have spent over a year researching this. Cynlite can also give u a chart that has information on the patients, doctors, and outcomes for the surgeries that have been posted on this forum. Plus she is a wealth of knowledge. In my opinion, I would look at all your choices before choosing one doctor and disc. If you can, also get evaluated by Dr Zeegers. Best wishes and good luck in your quest. Please feel free to ask me any questions.
__________________
Degeneration of discs C3-C6, T8-T9, L4-L5, and L1-S1 due to car accident in 2005.

Over 100 injections in both neck and back
L5-S1 laminectomy
L4-L5 selective endoscopic disctectomies
L5-S1 ALIF fusion
Neurostimulator implant at T8
C3-C4 selective endoscopic disctectomy
C5-C6 selective endoscopic disctectomy

4-6 level adr surgery in neck and back with Dr Clavel on April 11th. Will also have fusion on L1-L2 and neurostimulator implant removal
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  #12  
Old 03-30-2016, 04:40 AM
mgossel mgossel is offline
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Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 23
Default Dr Yeung

I live in Phoenix and I just realized that you went to Dr Yeung. I also have had surgery with him and another Dr in his practice. Dr Justin Field. I had my SEDs, fusion, and neurostimulator implant with that group of doctors. Take care.
__________________
Degeneration of discs C3-C6, T8-T9, L4-L5, and L1-S1 due to car accident in 2005.

Over 100 injections in both neck and back
L5-S1 laminectomy
L4-L5 selective endoscopic disctectomies
L5-S1 ALIF fusion
Neurostimulator implant at T8
C3-C4 selective endoscopic disctectomy
C5-C6 selective endoscopic disctectomy

4-6 level adr surgery in neck and back with Dr Clavel on April 11th. Will also have fusion on L1-L2 and neurostimulator implant removal
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  #13  
Old 03-30-2016, 02:30 PM
Tom B. Tom B. is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 29
Default Thanks

Thanks, mgossel, for the information! I lived in Arizona for fifteen years, in the Phoenix area for most of that time, working as a flight instructor and charter pilot. So, seeing Dr. Yeung ten years ago was kind of a homecoming.

This morning, I've been catching up online on some of the discussion of the newer artificial discs and recently popular surgeons. I have a lot to learn. I'm just going to ramble a bit because I'm not really qualified to do much else -

My TBI surgeon said yesterday that I am analytical, which is true. I know there are many people who don't do much analysis, but just get a "second opinion" then do what seems right intuitively, hoping for the best. I'm fairly analytical and have OCD tendencies, but also like to, at times, make decisions based on other people's opinions. (The real extreme is that we just bought a Jeep Renegade based primarily on its appearance. Isn't that crazy? We did refer to consumer reviews and such, but you get my point.)

Anyway, I'm ready to jump to a surgery based on relatively old information, but also feel myself being drawn into the abyss of analysis and deliberation. In my particular case I'm fortunate to have some retirement savings I can pull out early (I think they'll let me do that), but I'm unfortunate in that I can't work as a pilot with relatively minor symptoms. So, I'm compelled to just take care of my back problem as best I can in a reasonably short period of time with whatever methods and surgeons are relatively proven.

(As I said, I was going to ramble. I apologize, but I'm not on Facebook anymore, so this may be a substitution. Contradictorily, you may notice that I'm not so big on privacy. I don't really care who reads this if it provokes some discussion and helps me get information. I haven't been stung yet by the whole identity theft thing. Maybe that explains it.)

Anyway, back on topic. When I first saw a picture of the M-6 disc, my first reactions were, "wow, that's a lot of parts" and "it looks a little gimmicky." Then today I realized the M-6 is the next big thing that Dr. Bertagnoli was referring to on his Center of Rotation page. When I read that page, it made a whole lot of sense. So, now I'm confused a bit.

Oversimplifying, I know, but is that Prodisc center plastic part going to pop out into my back? Am I going to damage my facets because the Prodisc frees up my spine so much? How old is Dr. Bertagnoli? Is there an age to stop doing surgery? The FAA forces airline pilots to retire at age 65.

Would the M-6 end up like an old shoe (where did that humorous comparison first come from?) that is deformed over time? What would be the downside of having my body weight supported by flexible material at the angle formed by my L5/S1 level? Would the M-6 pull loose from the bone by twisting forces?

OK, there are many more questions, but I'll stop, for now. Again, thanks for the thoughtful responses.
__________________
2002 - leg symptoms after ice skating lessons
2005 - DDD diagnosis - mainly at L3 - S1 (L1/2 not good either)
X-rays, 2 MRIs, EMG, mylegram/CT scan, discogram/CT scan, 2nd discogram
3 ESIs, nerve root injection, PT, chiropractic, SED at L5/S1 - qualified success
February 9, 1016 - stood up from chair - left leg and pelvis numbness and tingling, moderate lumbar pain
X-rays, MRI, CT scan, discogram/CT scan, mylegram/CT scan
ESI
April 26, 2016 - L3 - S1 3-level ProDisc-L
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  #14  
Old 03-30-2016, 10:35 PM
Fathub's Avatar
Fathub Fathub is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 156
Default

A long time ago.....we had a maverick in Canada and depending on how you look at it.......when your in the front.....you have arrows in your back.....
http://www.justice4you.org/cases_Kuntz.php
__________________
Dec 1/15 - 3 level ADR from S1/L3 c/w 360 mobility preservation at L3/L4 for Spondylolisthesis done by Dr. Bertagnoli in Bogen GmbH.
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  #15  
Old 03-30-2016, 11:09 PM
Tom B. Tom B. is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 29
Default Thanks

Thanks, Fathub. That was an interesting article, a long one. I just skimmed the last two pages, but got the gist of it.

You just recently saw Dr. Bertagnoli? How was the experience? I'm waiting for a response from him. Generally, how disabled-looking did his patients look pre-operatively, if you happened to notice? If I go somewhere for a multi-level ADR, I won't be limping in or using a walker, but I'm pretty much done with my career unless the leg numbness and moderate lower back pain go away. I just wonder whether doctors will see that I've got good strength and balance, etc., and am not grimacing in pain and will tell me to take a hike.
__________________
2002 - leg symptoms after ice skating lessons
2005 - DDD diagnosis - mainly at L3 - S1 (L1/2 not good either)
X-rays, 2 MRIs, EMG, mylegram/CT scan, discogram/CT scan, 2nd discogram
3 ESIs, nerve root injection, PT, chiropractic, SED at L5/S1 - qualified success
February 9, 1016 - stood up from chair - left leg and pelvis numbness and tingling, moderate lumbar pain
X-rays, MRI, CT scan, discogram/CT scan, mylegram/CT scan
ESI
April 26, 2016 - L3 - S1 3-level ProDisc-L
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  #16  
Old 05-01-2016, 08:31 PM
Grover771's Avatar
Grover771 Grover771 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 174
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom B. View Post
Thanks, mgossel, for the information! I lived in Arizona for fifteen years, in the Phoenix area for most of that time, working as a flight instructor and charter pilot. So, seeing Dr. Yeung ten years ago was kind of a homecoming.

This morning, I've been catching up online on some of the discussion of the newer artificial discs and recently popular surgeons. I have a lot to learn. I'm just going to ramble a bit because I'm not really qualified to do much else -

My TBI surgeon said yesterday that I am analytical, which is true. I know there are many people who don't do much analysis, but just get a "second opinion" then do what seems right intuitively, hoping for the best. I'm fairly analytical and have OCD tendencies, but also like to, at times, make decisions based on other people's opinions. (The real extreme is that we just bought a Jeep Renegade based primarily on its appearance. Isn't that crazy? We did refer to consumer reviews and such, but you get my point.)

Anyway, I'm ready to jump to a surgery based on relatively old information, but also feel myself being drawn into the abyss of analysis and deliberation. In my particular case I'm fortunate to have some retirement savings I can pull out early (I think they'll let me do that), but I'm unfortunate in that I can't work as a pilot with relatively minor symptoms. So, I'm compelled to just take care of my back problem as best I can in a reasonably short period of time with whatever methods and surgeons are relatively proven.

(As I said, I was going to ramble. I apologize, but I'm not on Facebook anymore, so this may be a substitution. Contradictorily, you may notice that I'm not so big on privacy. I don't really care who reads this if it provokes some discussion and helps me get information. I haven't been stung yet by the whole identity theft thing. Maybe that explains it.)

Anyway, back on topic. When I first saw a picture of the M-6 disc, my first reactions were, "wow, that's a lot of parts" and "it looks a little gimmicky." Then today I realized the M-6 is the next big thing that Dr. Bertagnoli was referring to on his Center of Rotation page. When I read that page, it made a whole lot of sense. So, now I'm confused a bit.

Oversimplifying, I know, but is that Prodisc center plastic part going to pop out into my back? Am I going to damage my facets because the Prodisc frees up my spine so much? How old is Dr. Bertagnoli? Is there an age to stop doing surgery? The FAA forces airline pilots to retire at age 65.

Would the M-6 end up like an old shoe (where did that humorous comparison first come from?) that is deformed over time? What would be the downside of having my body weight supported by flexible material at the angle formed by my L5/S1 level? Would the M-6 pull loose from the bone by twisting forces?

OK, there are many more questions, but I'll stop, for now. Again, thanks for the thoughtful responses.
Hi Tom,

I'm coming in late to this discussion, as I've not been on the board for a while, but wanted to share my experience with you as you consider a 3 level.
I had a 3-Level Hybrid surgery with Dr. blumenthal at TBI in July of 2013. ADR at L3-4 and L4-5 with ALIF at L5-S1.

I'm 3 years in and started having pain again about 9 months ago. I'd joined a gym and thought I was doing really well and thought maybe I screwed something up. I had my X-rays at TBI (my annual follow up) and everything still looked perfect. Doc said it was possibly my OA and sent me for injections. I've had RFA (radio frequency ablation) from L3-S1 to no avail. I keep telling my pain management doc that it hurts down at the fusion level and could it just be my facets or something at the SI area. We're going to look there next.

At this point I'm looking at acupuncture and a second opinion that is offered free with my employers healthcare coverage (2nd MD). I lived in Florida at the time I had my surgery at TBI and my employer (a college) insurance BCBS of Fla did not cover Lumbar ADR. We paid for it out of our retirement fund. Doc didn't think an ADR at L5 was needed, so I did a fusion. I honestly think it's the fusion that's causing me my pain. (I wonder if they can go back in and out an artificial disc there now?)

Anyway, sorry for the long story... I've been reading yours and wanted to touch base to share mine. I hope you can find relief at some point, so you can continue to keep us safe as we travel the skies.
__________________
Deb
___________________________
1988 diagnosed with DDD, bulging
2012 trauma lumbar following yard work
Nov 2012 MRI Bulging discs L4,5, S1
Mild stenosis
Dec-Jan PT
Jan 2013 Discogram
Results Level 5 Annular tears L3-4, L4-5 and L5-S1
Need 3 disc fusion
Facet Joints injections, March 2013- no relief
Transform.., Epidural Injections 4-23-13 Right L2-3 No relief
2nd ESI 5-14-13 L3-4, L4-5, L5-S1 No relief ugh.
ADR L3-4, L4-5, Fusion L5-S1 Fusion Dr.Blumenthal TBI July, 2013
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  #17  
Old 05-02-2016, 01:14 AM
Tom B. Tom B. is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 29
Default Thanks, Grover 771

Thanks, Grover771. Copying and pasting from my comments last Wednesday in the travel thread I started -

"OK, made it to Bogen. Three-level ADR surgery yesterday. So far, so good. Level 8 distraction pain. A bit of sciatica when I straighten my legs. Drank a whole pot of tea.

"Happened pretty quickly because the Prof. Dr. had a cancellation and we flew standby with no problems."

It seems that I, too, am learning what I've heard from others, that recovery does not happen in a straight line. I'm still in the hospital and am supposed to be discharged today. The pain has been a bit better each day, so we went for a long walk yesterday to the church on the hill in Bogen that many in this group are familiar with. This morning, the pain woke me up at level 6. I assume it's because of yesterday's exertion. Keep in mind, I'm still on medication every day.

Grover771, so, on my mind, like you, is the question of the source of the deep achy pain. I still have the left leg, foot and pelvis numbness, but no sharp pain that I was afraid might result from additional nerve damage or stretching during surgery. Since three natural discs are gone and everything is stabilized and the nerves are freed up, I hope the ache in my lower back is from the surrounding tissue. Is this the type of pain you have? Do you get relief by just moving around and walking? That is what I noticed yesterday with the long walk.

I live near TBI and was planning to follow up with Dr. Zigler who I saw three times, ten years ago. I've never seen Dr. Blumenthal. Do you recommend him?
__________________
2002 - leg symptoms after ice skating lessons
2005 - DDD diagnosis - mainly at L3 - S1 (L1/2 not good either)
X-rays, 2 MRIs, EMG, mylegram/CT scan, discogram/CT scan, 2nd discogram
3 ESIs, nerve root injection, PT, chiropractic, SED at L5/S1 - qualified success
February 9, 1016 - stood up from chair - left leg and pelvis numbness and tingling, moderate lumbar pain
X-rays, MRI, CT scan, discogram/CT scan, mylegram/CT scan
ESI
April 26, 2016 - L3 - S1 3-level ProDisc-L
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  #18  
Old 05-02-2016, 10:18 PM
Fathub's Avatar
Fathub Fathub is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 156
Default

Tom,
Take it easy on the long walks including when you move over to Straubing. Do the walks but short walks and 2-3 times/day. Stay on the Ottoman muscle relaxants and most important of all......DON'T overdo it.......cut yourself some slack time and allow your traumatized body to catch up.
__________________
Dec 1/15 - 3 level ADR from S1/L3 c/w 360 mobility preservation at L3/L4 for Spondylolisthesis done by Dr. Bertagnoli in Bogen GmbH.
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  #19  
Old 05-03-2016, 03:46 AM
Tom B. Tom B. is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 29
Default Thanks

Thanks, Fathub, maybe I learned that lesson. I feel a bit a better today. I saw the Dr. Prof. again yesterday before we left the hospital. He said to take it easy and that too much activity can cause problems - not even physical therapy for six weeks, other than the small things the hospital therapist showed me. I definitely don't want to dislodge a disc or overstress something. It makes me wonder what all the potential problems are.

My understanding from what I've heard and read and what the back brace does is that I mainly shouldn't flex or twist to any limit of motion - particularly bending backwards.
__________________
2002 - leg symptoms after ice skating lessons
2005 - DDD diagnosis - mainly at L3 - S1 (L1/2 not good either)
X-rays, 2 MRIs, EMG, mylegram/CT scan, discogram/CT scan, 2nd discogram
3 ESIs, nerve root injection, PT, chiropractic, SED at L5/S1 - qualified success
February 9, 1016 - stood up from chair - left leg and pelvis numbness and tingling, moderate lumbar pain
X-rays, MRI, CT scan, discogram/CT scan, mylegram/CT scan
ESI
April 26, 2016 - L3 - S1 3-level ProDisc-L
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  #20  
Old 07-05-2016, 04:28 PM
Tom B. Tom B. is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 29
Default Update

Here's an update. It's been ten weeks since my three-level (L3 - S1) ADR surgery by Dr. Bertagnoli.

I started physical therapy three weeks ago. Either it's a coincidence or the therapy has helped quite a bit. My lower back pain and left leg numbness and pain symptoms had been significantly worse compared to before the surgery. My biggest problem was being awakened by leg pain every night.

Now I'm on tramadol with "as needed" oxycodone and one gabapentin for sleeping. I could probably do without the oxycodone. I'm walking and sitting for longer periods and sleeping through the night.

The main thing to note is the probable benefit of physical therapy, which seems to have made a big difference. Generally, my symptoms are comparable to prior to surgery, with the added benefit of having a stable spine.

I'm planning to follow up at TBI in a few weeks.
__________________
2002 - leg symptoms after ice skating lessons
2005 - DDD diagnosis - mainly at L3 - S1 (L1/2 not good either)
X-rays, 2 MRIs, EMG, mylegram/CT scan, discogram/CT scan, 2nd discogram
3 ESIs, nerve root injection, PT, chiropractic, SED at L5/S1 - qualified success
February 9, 1016 - stood up from chair - left leg and pelvis numbness and tingling, moderate lumbar pain
X-rays, MRI, CT scan, discogram/CT scan, mylegram/CT scan
ESI
April 26, 2016 - L3 - S1 3-level ProDisc-L

Last edited by Tom B.; 07-05-2016 at 11:10 PM.
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