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  #21  
Old 04-02-2014, 05:26 PM
FranklySir FranklySir is offline
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Posts: 177
Default Two Weeks Henry!!!!!!!

Hey bud,

Hoping you are keeping calm. Not to far off now. Been thinking about you.
Hit fifteen weeks today and really feel GREAT now. It was a struggle but all worth it. I wont say horrible and wont say easy.

Feel free anytime to get in touch. Hope your not in agony.

Frank
__________________
Lumbar issues 18 yrs
herniations lumbar L3-5 multiple Epis etc etc
Annular tears L3-5 cauda equina
Cervical herniation symptoms 2011
C5-7 M6C by Dr Clavel on June 5 2013
L3-5 M6L by Dr. Clavel on 12.18.13
Living life instead of living the condition
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  #22  
Old 04-03-2014, 10:32 AM
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henry4956 henry4956 is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 250
Default mental agony but not physical

in response to Frank,

Up until 2 days ago I have been calm and relaxed and suddenly I am scared. My pain level lately has been better than normal, and doubts are creeping in. Things like (It's not that bad, maybe I shouldn't have) this seems to happen each time I sink money into this. 1st time was after I bought the plane tickets $8000, and 2 days ago I sent $12000 to Dr Zeegers. It's hard to explain, the human mind is so complex. Every time I feel ok (whether in pain med induced or not) I say to myself 'where is the pain' and the doubt sets in. I find myself actually trying to bring the pain on by standing up or walking until it does, just so I am reminded of why I am doing this. I suspect there are others who have had similar experiences.
__________________
Bad fall on A$$, Feb 2001 ice hockey
Lami L4/L5 April 2001, L5/S1 Aug 2001
Severe dislocated coccyx (same fall)
Un-diagnosed til 09. (Cannot sit)
Low back pain mild until 2011 - pull started a generator from knees.
rhizotomy Nov 2011 - zilch
Facet joint inj. 18 mo. (no impact)
Can only stand/walk for approx. 30 min
21 hrs/day in bed
L3-5 Activ-Ls (April 2014) Dr Zeegers - walk every day, swim 3 x week. Pain free, no pain meds. Extremely pleased with my decision
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  #23  
Old 04-03-2014, 10:53 AM
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jss jss is offline
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Default

Henry,

As I never had a moment's relief from the pain, I was never quite where you are. The only doubt I had was sitting in the hospital room waiting for them to take me into surgery. I recall thinking, "What am I doing!? No one speaks English, I only know one person within 6000 miles, what if something goes wrong, etc..." Such doubts are natural.

We've all watched your journey, watched you research, learn, question, and then repeat that cycle over and over again. You've done your due diligence, educated yourself, read countless surgical experiences, talked to a host of medical personnel, and made a decision based on the facts you've picked up from your research. I don't know what more you could have done. Even the most meticulous of us has been where you are.

I know you're going to do great.

Good luck, Jeff
__________________
C4/5 - ACDF in 2000
C5/6 - ACDF in 2002
C3/4 & C6/7 - M6 ADR, Nov 2009, Barcelona
Conceded defeat to a manifestly disingenuous BCBS-TX in my quest for reimbursement, Jan 2011
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  #24  
Old 04-03-2014, 01:58 PM
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henry4956 henry4956 is offline
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Posts: 250
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Right now, I only seem to be able to focus the current day, the current hour. If I'm not in pain, doesn't matter that I'm lying down or have pain meds working. It's almost like I want my pain to be high so my head can justify what is going to go down in a very short time. Is it possible that my last injections are still working (late Dec), I literally couldn't stand for 2 minutes back then. Some have suggested that having everything taken care of (selecting surgeon, diagnosis, travel arrangements done etc) has reduced my stress level which has helped me relax. I really don't know, my back felt awful when I got up this morning and it actually made me feel better about the upcoming surgery. How stupid is that? But now between the tramadol and relaxing in bed I feel OK again.
__________________
Bad fall on A$$, Feb 2001 ice hockey
Lami L4/L5 April 2001, L5/S1 Aug 2001
Severe dislocated coccyx (same fall)
Un-diagnosed til 09. (Cannot sit)
Low back pain mild until 2011 - pull started a generator from knees.
rhizotomy Nov 2011 - zilch
Facet joint inj. 18 mo. (no impact)
Can only stand/walk for approx. 30 min
21 hrs/day in bed
L3-5 Activ-Ls (April 2014) Dr Zeegers - walk every day, swim 3 x week. Pain free, no pain meds. Extremely pleased with my decision
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  #25  
Old 04-03-2014, 02:03 PM
FranklySir FranklySir is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 177
Cool Second the motion!!

Henry,

I second Jeffs post!!

I had the same reservations on the neck. Had no pain when I went and second guessed it. Just knew deep down I couldn't continue since it wasn't a life anymore but episode to episode and crap in between.
Try not beating yourself up and what you are feeling is normal anxiety.
Freefall if you can and rest up now. No need to trigger pain to justify pain relief. You know your back won't get better from history and you made your choice to get fixed.
You should only have one more hill to climb and you will do great and look back and be glad you moved through it. It will take time so stay as calm as you can.

Good times are coming

Be well my friend.

Frank
__________________
Lumbar issues 18 yrs
herniations lumbar L3-5 multiple Epis etc etc
Annular tears L3-5 cauda equina
Cervical herniation symptoms 2011
C5-7 M6C by Dr Clavel on June 5 2013
L3-5 M6L by Dr. Clavel on 12.18.13
Living life instead of living the condition
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  #26  
Old 04-03-2014, 03:16 PM
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henry4956 henry4956 is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 250
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Frank, you should be a motivational speaker. I am so out of shape that when I go on a walk of about 20-30 minutes I am completely gassed. I start feeling the low back and exhaustion at the same time. I have a feeling I'm going to need your pep talks post-op in a big way.

Dr Zeegers just called me: We talked about this very subject. He was talking about how many people (and I think he hinted that sometimes it genetics related) experience very bad lumbar pain at some point in their life. Depending on how severe it is, many people can tolerate it as their body adjusts to the degeneration and they get to a point where it just ends. He said this cycle could last up to 10 years but it varies. So I guess theoretically I could wait it out but it's impossible to know if I would get there in 2 more years or 5 or 6. He also talked about the cycles within this period in which you can have peaks and valleys. I distinctly remember last year at this exact same time I was just like this (feeling like it was improving) only to be back down by June and in Hell by November.
__________________
Bad fall on A$$, Feb 2001 ice hockey
Lami L4/L5 April 2001, L5/S1 Aug 2001
Severe dislocated coccyx (same fall)
Un-diagnosed til 09. (Cannot sit)
Low back pain mild until 2011 - pull started a generator from knees.
rhizotomy Nov 2011 - zilch
Facet joint inj. 18 mo. (no impact)
Can only stand/walk for approx. 30 min
21 hrs/day in bed
L3-5 Activ-Ls (April 2014) Dr Zeegers - walk every day, swim 3 x week. Pain free, no pain meds. Extremely pleased with my decision

Last edited by henry4956; 04-03-2014 at 03:41 PM. Reason: added comment
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  #27  
Old 04-03-2014, 03:43 PM
FranklySir FranklySir is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 177
Default

Sent PM.

I have been told that many times amongst other things as well.

Some like it others, well, not so much.
Give me a call, I can help you.

I see you are on line so now is fine.

Frank
__________________
Lumbar issues 18 yrs
herniations lumbar L3-5 multiple Epis etc etc
Annular tears L3-5 cauda equina
Cervical herniation symptoms 2011
C5-7 M6C by Dr Clavel on June 5 2013
L3-5 M6L by Dr. Clavel on 12.18.13
Living life instead of living the condition
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  #28  
Old 04-03-2014, 11:57 PM
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Kelly4ADR Kelly4ADR is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 259
Default Justified Pain

Henry,

Thanks for being so honest about the process you are going through doubting your decision. I just wanted to plug in my two cents and hopefully this will be helpful.

As a massage therapist of 15 years, dealing mostly with patients of chronic pain and traumatic injury, I can say that your feelings of wanting to feel pain to justify your actions is very, very common. People (including myself as a patient) often describe the mixed feelings after receiving their MRI results, for example, as "relieved there is a real problem and it's not all I my head" versus "upset that there is a real problem and now what do I do."

I also see it on a much smaller scale, when patients come in for an appointment and I ask "How is the pain today?" I often hear sheepish replies such as "well of course it isn't hurting now" or actually watching patients maneuver around, saying "just wait a sec, I can get it to hurt really bad".

If you are an ethical person your conscience needs reassurance that your actions, whether small, like receiving massage to take care of yourself, or taking a grand leap such as you have... Time/money/travel/major surgery, etc...it is very normal to want to feel justified, to have your actions/pain verified.

That being said, from the medical providers position we look at two types of information. Subjective, (what the patients say ie: pain, limitations etc..) and objective(what we find, ie; postural deviations, functional test results, gait issues, diagnostic findings from MRI, CT etc...)

I often tell my patients what I feel and see when I'm working on them, and more times than not I hear this exact comment... "You can feel that? Then it's not just all in my head!" And I actually have to spend some time reassuring patients that it is not all in their head, that I can see and feel the problem as well.

Although for the last 15 years I have helped thousands of people with their pain, I personally have put my own self on the back burner, because for whatever reason I have a very guilty conscience about that. Until I finally heard this year by several surgeons that I need to have this fixed or I will be looking at permanent damage I felt justified. And I still question and have doubt, thinking, my pain isn't really that bad...

So here is food for thought for you....

*you hired a professionals to give their opinion about what you need. You have had more than one opinion. They have all reviewed the subjective information, but they really judge by the objective. Surgery is recommended.

*your idea of pain can be altered due to several variables: tolerance, mindset, posture, sleep position, weather, guilt, activity...etc. you have had bad enough pain in the past to push you down the road of surgical options...

So I feel that I am rambling but bottom line is pain isn't always the driving factor since it is subjective. Trust your surgeon. Your surgery wouldn't be booked with his clinic if he thought you didn't need it. We can be our own worst enemy, judge and critic. This time, rest in the professional opinion that this is what you need. In the mean time, enjoy your good days!! Take a deep breath and take care of yourself mentally and physically so we can all cheer you on through your recovery!!!

I guess my short story turned long, but I hope this helps
__________________
2004 MRI -cervical bone spur causing pain
2011 MRI -5 bulging discs at C3-7: Recommended C5-6 and C6-7 for a two level fusion, I said no thanks.
2014 MRI -progressive compression C5-7.
MRI 6/5/14- Ruptured L4-5, bulge at L2-3 and L5-S1 Dr recommends discectomy of L4-5 but won't do surgery until cervical is stable
8/2014- 8 months/3 rounds of appeals, Aetna denies 2 level cervical ADR
2 level ADR w/ mobi-c C5-7 Jan 7, 2015
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  #29  
Old 04-04-2014, 12:45 PM
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henry4956 henry4956 is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 250
Default

Thankyou for that Kelly, wow that really hit home. I appreciate the time you took to share that with me. I talked to Frank yesterday directly and he's such a great guy too. It was kind of weird, Frank really put me at ease and when we ended our call. I got up out of bed and my low back was killing me, and of course I said 'Yes this is good'. But really, between what you said, my wife, Frank, Christy, Jeff, Mike, phillyJoe, Todd and on and on, I feel better about all of this and have a better perspective now. There are others who I didn't name because there are so many, this forum has really proven to be 'adrSUPPORT' just like the name.

There is a kindred spirit here, and I'm not sure I could have gotten this far with out the support. Thank you all
__________________
Bad fall on A$$, Feb 2001 ice hockey
Lami L4/L5 April 2001, L5/S1 Aug 2001
Severe dislocated coccyx (same fall)
Un-diagnosed til 09. (Cannot sit)
Low back pain mild until 2011 - pull started a generator from knees.
rhizotomy Nov 2011 - zilch
Facet joint inj. 18 mo. (no impact)
Can only stand/walk for approx. 30 min
21 hrs/day in bed
L3-5 Activ-Ls (April 2014) Dr Zeegers - walk every day, swim 3 x week. Pain free, no pain meds. Extremely pleased with my decision
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  #30  
Old 04-04-2014, 04:56 PM
ian ian is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 155
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Hey Henry,

The day before my surgery I was sitting up in the hospital bed. Malte Petersen asked how I was feeling. Strangely enough, it was probably the best I had felt in months. And for a brief moment I wondered what the hell I was doing there. But I knew whatever relief I was experiencing was fleeting. It was a HUGE leap of faith on my part to place my spine in another persons hands, but looking back I'd do it again.

You're gonna walk out of that hospital feeling better than when you arrived, and day by day, week by week, you will improve. It takes an immense amount of trust and faith to do what you are about to do, and many of us have experienced. But you're making the right decision. I truly believe that.

Cheers,
- Ian
__________________
- 20+ years of constant back pain
- Sacralization (natural fusion) at L5/S1
- DDD at L4/L5 dating back to mid twenties
- Torn ligaments in SI joint
- PRP injections at SI joint
- Tarlov cysts on sacrum
- Lumbar stenosis
- L4/L5 ADR Feb 25, 2014 with Dr. Bierstedt.
http://iansroadback.blogspot.com
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