ADR Surgery booked (Zeegers Apr 16)

[henry4956]

Well, it's in the books now. I've got my plane tickets (1st class direct 7 hr flight). I had a good conversation with Dr Zeegers this morning and I feel very confident that I have the right man for the job. The plan is a 2 level adr L4-S1 but it is possible that could change after several more tests to be done in Bonn. Dr Zeegers is intent on solving my coccyx pain as well - as he still is not sure whether or not it is related to lumbar issues.
Something about actually setting the date and buying the tickets has made me start questioning myself (Am I doing the right thing kind of thing)
Nevertheless I press on.
I want to publicly acknowledge God for being with me through all of this and also I want to thank all the people here who have supported me and helped me during my vetting process. You all know who you are.

[tnt136913]

hope it all works out , know the up and down of the pain you are going threw

[pittpete]

Glad you made a decision Henry.
You had to be comfortable in the decision and only you.
I'm pulling for ya bud:clap:

[jss]

Henry,

Congratulations on the felling of this next domino in the sequence of events to make you whole again! From all I've read about Dr Zeegers, making a better selection would be difficult.

A note about questioning yourself... Certainly there are no guarantees in spine surgery. All we can do is study, learn, research and then repeat those steps again and again; and then hope and pray for the best. You've done many months of careful and painstaking study about your condition, researching your options in implants and surgeons, comparing the outcomes of others with varied combinations of conditions, implants and surgeons. Then there's the uniqueness of your physical, financial, family, emotional, etc.. condition; all of which are inputs into this impossibly and irreducibly complex formula of spine surgery. From what I can tell, given all of that, you are the foremost expert on the best way for you to proceed. After all you've done, if you say it's Zeegers 5000 miles from home, then you've got my vote.

I know you're going to do great.

Good luck, Jeff

[bwink23]

Congrats, Henry....you'll be thrilled to know you can stand on your own 2 feet again. The first 2 weeks are the roughest. But you'll be on that long road to recovery and not regret your decision i believe that. You're gonna do great.

[drewrad]

Coincidentally, I had a phone call with Dr. Zeegers again at 3:00PM today, midnight his time. I am still in the early stages. I enjoy the time he takes with me. Together, we went bit by bit through my images and the questions I had, and how he would perform my surgery. He trusts his hands and sounds extremely confident in them.

I have Bierstadt's consult along with Clavels and now am waiting to meet with Kaiser tomorrow. I am going to push them for ADR. We'll see.

Finally, I am waiting for Bae, Laurryson and TBI to round out the rest.

But, I did start with Zeegers. Who knows? I may finish with him as well, like you. Time will tell.

[ian]

Henry, I know exactly what you mean about questioning yourself. Do your research, talk to doctors, their patients, get all the info you can, then relax knowing you did everything you can to make an informed decision.


Well, it's in the books now. I've got my plane tickets (1st class direct 7 hr flight). I had a good conversation with Dr Zeegers this morning and I feel very confident that I have the right man for the job. The plan is a 2 level adr L4-S1 but it is possible that could change after several more tests to be done in Bonn. Dr Zeegers is intent on solving my coccyx pain as well - as he still is not sure whether or not it is related to lumbar issues.
Something about actually setting the date and buying the tickets has made me start questioning myself (Am I doing the right thing kind of thing)
Nevertheless I press on.
I want to publicly acknowledge God for being with me through all of this and also I want to thank all the people here who have supported me and helped me during my vetting process. You all know who you are.

[RWS Dave]

Congrats on making a decision, Henry! You've certainly done your research, so hopefully you'll have peace of mind going in that you've done all you can to maximize the likelihood of a great outcome.

[drewrad]

Henry, on that two level, are you going with the Activ L? Or another device?

[henry4956]

To be completely honest I'm not sure. He has been using the M6 but only at the L5/S1 level. I'd be lying if I said I understood his rational. So I may actually get one of each. I know that most people on this site want the m6 but I trust Dr Zeegers judgement on whatever he uses. I believe he himself is not sure yet. He doesn't finalize the 'Diagnosis' until he does his final testing in Germany. I will be having a new mri, and CT scans on lumbar & coccyx when I get there. Then the final 'Perfect Diagnosis'.

Sorry for the delayed response, I haven't been visiting the site as much anymore since I made up my mind.

[drewrad]

Thanks. Its just that I'm in discussions with him also and wanted to compare notes and you're right. He mentioned to me about M6 at the L5/S1 because its easier to get in(and taken out) as it has no major vessels and he prefers the Activ L on the L4/L5 because he can go in laterally avoiding those vessels(and also remove it if need be with better tech in 10 year or more if need be). Probably a safer approach, both in and out.

[TPatti]

Henry I am glad you made a decision you feel comfortable with. JSS stated many of thought so well I will just 2nd what he added. I understand the thoughts of both relief and questioning once you made your decision. It is normal, you got to the place you are with a lot of research and an innate ability to know what you think is best for you. Even though we are the doctors we still still know the most about our own bodies. Good luck!!

[FranklySir]

Henry,

Take a deep breath and calm your mind as best you can. You have made a very self educated decision to get better and it will take time. It took many years of agony to get where you are now so try to give yourself the time feel better. It is going to take time to feel great. Seek comfort in your choice as well. Docs Here wanted to do L5-S1 on me and Poo Pooed L3-4. The wind up was Clavel did L3-5 and left L5-S1 alone due to it being almost fused already and guess what there is no pain anymore. I get the conflicting opinion stuff and am glad Zeeger's is addressing the Coccyx.

For me I am so very thankful that I made the choices I did. 9 weeks out from double lumbar L3-5 and 7 months out from double Cervical. I would do both all again in a heartbeat! I won't say I was not nervous the first one. The Lumbar I really had no reservations at all. What I am trying to say is the unknown is what plays with your head.:insane: Believe it, work at it and let your mind at ease and you will see it. Staying positive is hard but do your best.....

You WILL do well and feel alot better! Let that part of your life (or lack of ) go. Go into the surgery with the clearest mind possible and try to quell the feelings of fear angst and I will 3RD Jeffs post.

Hang in there brother and we will be praying for you!

Frank

PS edited. Dont be surprised or hesitant if he wants to fuse L5-S1 They (the Euros) have been looking at this much closer depending on sacral slope. Not trying to give you doubt but be prepared and maybe ask.

[henry4956]

thanks Frank & Todd
I just typed in a long response only to loose it when I went submit it, that pisses me off, it's happened to me before.

I'll make this one short. Frank I am aware of a fusion possibility, but in my case it's more likely to be at L4-5. So, what about L3-4 if that occurs?
It will all be ironed out on Apr 15th when I have several more tests done there. I should post a pic of a mri slice that shows just how meesed up my L4-5 is.

[FranklySir]

Henry,

Im glad to hear you have confidence in your surgeon and an open mind. All or most of these guys want to do right by us. I think moreso than here (unfortunately) due to us paying out of pocket. Think if I listened to the Ortho here as in my post. He would have done a MLD on L5S1 as well with L45 so I would still be in agony after all that wit 3-4 annular tear which by the way wound up being worse than L45 and actually torn almost 75% around.

I doubt L4-5 would be fused on you. Like you said you are getting more testing done to finalize the plan. Dont rack your brain, it will all turn out well with a good plan of attack that you are already on.

Continue to have Faith Henry and try to look forward to better minutes, hours and days to come. They will become weeks and so on before you know it. They are all blessings when you are in constant pain.
Don't forget massage therapy (gentle) when you return. It really really helps since everything is angry and a good one will pull all the bad energy out of you.
Frank

[henry4956]

I am relaxed in the sense that I trust Dr Zeegers to do what is necessary. I wish I was where you post-op guys are but I know to get better I must push through the recovery period - I pray that it's not too long.
Anything I could be doing now that might be beneficial post-op (like stretches etc). I can do almost anything I want in the pool and I still go 2-3 times a week. BTW, once I can go back into the water I plan on utilizing the pool during my rehab. Hopefully someone can give me some rehab routines I can do in the water.
I know everyone's pain is different and impossible to compare but do you think my post-op distraction pain will more or less tolerable than my current pain level?

[FranklySir]

Henry,

Anything you can do to strengthen yourself prior to will be significant. I tell you this from my experiance with both surgeries that working out through the pain will pay off in spaids afterwards. Push yourself as best you can and you won't regret it. What's the worst that can happen more pain??? You can push thorugh and you will!!

Post will be long and get your head wrapped around it now but let it go as in like free falling while skydyiving. You will get through to the other side and fell wonderful. Don't set yourself up for failure with too much expectation on time frames. It will play with your head as you ride the seesaw. Don't fret as it takes time as I found out and am finding out with the lumbar now. It took you many years to get here any give yourself the time it takes to return to the new normal. It cannot be understated enough with the ups and downs so just prepare yourself and you will be ahead of the game.

I feel fantastic today buyt tomorrow maybe not so much.
Trust me!! You will be OK if you can just relax your mind and take what comes.

Be peaceful my friend and i wish you clarity of mind.. It is really imoportant that you do so. You decided, action plan, and follow through. Easy peasy!! NOT

Having a vodka tonic now since its been three months!!:clap::wiggle:

Frank

[henry4956]

I've only had one episode of real trepidation since I started thread. I stay busy with my software app (writing code) and have done a pretty good job of blocking it out of my mind.

This is it - it will happen - I have positive attitude

btw, believe it or not Zeegers now believes my L5-S1 is not problematic and the most likely surgery I will get is a hybrid. fusion at L4-5 and activL at L3-4 at 1st I was upset, but it is what it is and it's now in God's hands

[henry4956]

I know there are a wide variety of people on this site (spiritually speaking). Most of you who know me, know I am a Christian and this song by Jeremy Riddle has lifted my spirit and strengthened me in my darkest times during the last 3 years. I empathize with anyone whose in this fight alone. I would not have made it this far without the incredible support I get from my wife and ultimately the unwavering presence of God in my life, manifested best by this song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9T1IrNmx7E

[drewrad]

It's going to be okay br'er Henry. Of anyone here I am most excited about you. Continue to trust in The Lord and allow His power to overwhelm you.

Can't wait to see you walk again the way God intended.

[FranklySir]

Hey bud,

Hoping you are keeping calm. Not to far off now.:jacks: Been thinking about you.
Hit fifteen weeks today and really feel GREAT now. It was a struggle but all worth it. I wont say horrible and wont say easy.

Feel free anytime to get in touch. Hope your not in agony.

Frank

[henry4956]

in response to Frank,

Up until 2 days ago I have been calm and relaxed and suddenly I am scared. My pain level lately has been better than normal, and doubts are creeping in. Things like (It's not that bad, maybe I shouldn't have) this seems to happen each time I sink money into this. 1st time was after I bought the plane tickets $8000, and 2 days ago I sent $12000 to Dr Zeegers. It's hard to explain, the human mind is so complex. Every time I feel ok (whether in pain med induced or not) I say to myself 'where is the pain' and the doubt sets in. I find myself actually trying to bring the pain on by standing up or walking until it does, just so I am reminded of why I am doing this. I suspect there are others who have had similar experiences.

[jss]

Henry,

As I never had a moment's relief from the pain, I was never quite where you are. The only doubt I had was sitting in the hospital room waiting for them to take me into surgery. I recall thinking, "What am I doing!? No one speaks English, I only know one person within 6000 miles, what if something goes wrong, etc..." Such doubts are natural.

We've all watched your journey, watched you research, learn, question, and then repeat that cycle over and over again. You've done your due diligence, educated yourself, read countless surgical experiences, talked to a host of medical personnel, and made a decision based on the facts you've picked up from your research. I don't know what more you could have done. Even the most meticulous of us has been where you are.

I know you're going to do great.

Good luck, Jeff

[henry4956]

Right now, I only seem to be able to focus the current day, the current hour. If I'm not in pain, doesn't matter that I'm lying down or have pain meds working. It's almost like I want my pain to be high so my head can justify what is going to go down in a very short time. Is it possible that my last injections are still working (late Dec), I literally couldn't stand for 2 minutes back then. Some have suggested that having everything taken care of (selecting surgeon, diagnosis, travel arrangements done etc) has reduced my stress level which has helped me relax. I really don't know, my back felt awful when I got up this morning and it actually made me feel better about the upcoming surgery. How stupid is that? But now between the tramadol and relaxing in bed I feel OK again.

[FranklySir]

Henry,

I second Jeffs post!!

I had the same reservations on the neck. Had no pain when I went and second guessed it. Just knew deep down I couldn't continue since it wasn't a life anymore but episode to episode and crap in between.
Try not beating yourself up and what you are feeling is normal anxiety.
Freefall if you can and rest up now. No need to trigger pain to justify pain relief. You know your back won't get better from history and you made your choice to get fixed.
You should only have one more hill to climb and you will do great and look back and be glad you moved through it. It will take time so stay as calm as you can.

Good times are coming:clap:

Be well my friend.

Frank

[henry4956]

Frank, you should be a motivational speaker. I am so out of shape that when I go on a walk of about 20-30 minutes I am completely gassed. I start feeling the low back and exhaustion at the same time. I have a feeling I'm going to need your pep talks post-op in a big way.

Dr Zeegers just called me: We talked about this very subject. He was talking about how many people (and I think he hinted that sometimes it genetics related) experience very bad lumbar pain at some point in their life. Depending on how severe it is, many people can tolerate it as their body adjusts to the degeneration and they get to a point where it just ends. He said this cycle could last up to 10 years but it varies. So I guess theoretically I could wait it out but it's impossible to know if I would get there in 2 more years or 5 or 6. He also talked about the cycles within this period in which you can have peaks and valleys. I distinctly remember last year at this exact same time I was just like this (feeling like it was improving) only to be back down by June and in Hell by November.

[FranklySir]

Sent PM.

I have been told that many times amongst other things as well:censor:.

Some like it others, well, not so much.
Give me a call, I can help you.

I see you are on line so now is fine.

Frank

[Kelly4ADR]

Henry,

Thanks for being so honest about the process you are going through doubting your decision. I just wanted to plug in my two cents and hopefully this will be helpful.

As a massage therapist of 15 years, dealing mostly with patients of chronic pain and traumatic injury, I can say that your feelings of wanting to feel pain to justify your actions is very, very common. People (including myself as a patient) often describe the mixed feelings after receiving their MRI results, for example, as "relieved there is a real problem and it's not all I my head" versus "upset that there is a real problem and now what do I do."

I also see it on a much smaller scale, when patients come in for an appointment and I ask "How is the pain today?" I often hear sheepish replies such as "well of course it isn't hurting now" or actually watching patients maneuver around, saying "just wait a sec, I can get it to hurt really bad".

If you are an ethical person your conscience needs reassurance that your actions, whether small, like receiving massage to take care of yourself, or taking a grand leap such as you have... Time/money/travel/major surgery, etc...it is very normal to want to feel justified, to have your actions/pain verified.

That being said, from the medical providers position we look at two types of information. Subjective, (what the patients say ie: pain, limitations etc..) and objective(what we find, ie; postural deviations, functional test results, gait issues, diagnostic findings from MRI, CT etc...)

I often tell my patients what I feel and see when I'm working on them, and more times than not I hear this exact comment... "You can feel that? Then it's not just all in my head!" And I actually have to spend some time reassuring patients that it is not all in their head, that I can see and feel the problem as well.

Although for the last 15 years I have helped thousands of people with their pain, I personally have put my own self on the back burner, because for whatever reason I have a very guilty conscience about that. Until I finally heard this year by several surgeons that I need to have this fixed or I will be looking at permanent damage I felt justified. And I still question and have doubt, thinking, my pain isn't really that bad...

So here is food for thought for you....

*you hired a professionals to give their opinion about what you need. You have had more than one opinion. They have all reviewed the subjective information, but they really judge by the objective. Surgery is recommended.

*your idea of pain can be altered due to several variables: tolerance, mindset, posture, sleep position, weather, guilt, activity...etc. you have had bad enough pain in the past to push you down the road of surgical options...

So I feel that I am rambling but bottom line is pain isn't always the driving factor since it is subjective. Trust your surgeon. Your surgery wouldn't be booked with his clinic if he thought you didn't need it. We can be our own worst enemy, judge and critic. This time, rest in the professional opinion that this is what you need. In the mean time, enjoy your good days!! Take a deep breath and take care of yourself mentally and physically so we can all cheer you on through your recovery!!!

I guess my short story turned long, but I hope this helps :laugh:

[henry4956]

Thankyou for that Kelly, wow that really hit home. I appreciate the time you took to share that with me. I talked to Frank yesterday directly and he's such a great guy too. It was kind of weird, Frank really put me at ease and when we ended our call. I got up out of bed and my low back was killing me, and of course I said 'Yes this is good'. But really, between what you said, my wife, Frank, Christy, Jeff, Mike, phillyJoe, Todd and on and on, I feel better about all of this and have a better perspective now. There are others who I didn't name because there are so many, this forum has really proven to be 'adrSUPPORT' just like the name.

There is a kindred spirit here, and I'm not sure I could have gotten this far with out the support. Thank you all

[ian]

Hey Henry,

The day before my surgery I was sitting up in the hospital bed. Malte Petersen asked how I was feeling. Strangely enough, it was probably the best I had felt in months. And for a brief moment I wondered what the hell I was doing there. But I knew whatever relief I was experiencing was fleeting. It was a HUGE leap of faith on my part to place my spine in another persons hands, but looking back I'd do it again.

You're gonna walk out of that hospital feeling better than when you arrived, and day by day, week by week, you will improve. It takes an immense amount of trust and faith to do what you are about to do, and many of us have experienced. But you're making the right decision. I truly believe that.

Cheers,
- Ian

[Stonewall_Boris]

Best wishes Henry.

[henry4956]

Thankyou Rick, No hard feelings