Hello Folks

[Brewster]

New here today, I have both cervical degeneration and lumbar stenosis. My doctor is dead against ADR, here in Canada it's not done. Back in `01 The London Health Science Centre started doing the procedure but at some point abandoned it.
Looking at comparative costs it appears to me that ADR is less expensive than fusion. That would mean less income for the surgeons and could be the reason they walked away from the procedure.
There is a clinic in Buffalo that specializes in ADR and minimally invasive surgery, I'll contact them on Monday and ask if they have dealt with our provincial health care system. I'm in pain daily, LOL, from both ends, headaches, shoulder muscles, lower back pain , cramping in my legs. It's been going on for over a year , Tylenol and Biofreeze just take the edge off for a few hours at a time.
Why are so many of you going overseas?

[Stonewall_Boris]

Hey Brewster,

Like the nic eh. I'm from Winnipeg, Manitoba coming up to my 1 year anniversary of my 3 level ADR. I agree that the London Health Sciences did the first ADR in Canada, but to my knowledge they did it in about 1996, and yes Canada did not follow through on the procedure. Personally, I would never have a back surgery in Canada based upon my research. Go to the states or over seas but not here. Yes there are doctors that won't assist you if you need help after the surgery. IMHO, because they just don't understand the nature of the implant. IMHO knowing that we can't get assistance when we get back home is why Dr. Bierstedt is so meticulous in his work.

[jss]

Brewster,

Condolences on your miserable condition, and welcome. There are many Canucks on this site and most tell a story very similar yours.

First to your easy question; why do so many of us go to Europe for surgery? There are multiple reasons:

• US insurance carriers routinely deny ADR and it is much cheaper to pay out of pocket for ADR in Europe than in the US
• fusion is known to cause problems necessitating a second and even third fusion
• European surgeons have up to 25 years of experience in ADR where US surgeons have (generally) less than half that
• European surgeons have available to them 2nd and 3rd generation ADR devices where due to litigation and the FDA, US surgeons are limited to only 1st generation ADR devices
• it has been my observation from experiences on this site that patients that go to Europe for ADR surgery almost always have successful outcomes, where the success rates for those having ADR surgery in the US is much lower

Don't let that dissuade you from seeking help within the US system, but relatively primitive as I believe our US system of spine care to be, I have seen a great many successful outcomes within that system. Where ADR is concerned, I am hard pressed to say the same thing about the Canadian system; in fact, I've never seen a kind word spoken of that system.

I would encourage you to spend a lot of time reading in the "Surgical Outcome" forum of this site and all others that you can find. Whatever decision you make, you alone are the one that will have to live with it. There is NO substitute for research.

Good luck, Jeff

[Harrison]

Brewster, pls see: http://www.adrsupport.org/forums/f58...-health-11053/

Are you suffering with cervical or lumbar issues? It also matters in terms of how precisely we answer your question. E.g. many U.S. clinics are charging the same price for cervical ADR as Euro doctors -- when you add up all the costs of travel etc. it may even be less.

[Brewster]

I think I've got the signature thing. I'm going to talk to a clinic in Buffalo tomorrow. http:William Capicotto MD 716-881-0382 135 Linwood Ave Buffalo, NY 14209 1-888-325-7374.
We pay for our health care up here and I've just had a rep from the UHN tell me that the US system is not nearly as good as ours .That's the University Health Network in Toronto and she needs a dose of reality, neither system is perfect.
If I can convince my doctor to support my application, our provincial system may cover the procedure.

[Stonewall_Boris]

Brewster,

Let all of us know how it goes with your doctor approving the treatment and having it covered by the province.
Feel free to PM me on this as it was frustrating me to no end as I was going through it.

[TPatti]

I'm from Buffalo. Are you referring to "My Spinal Team"? They advertise that they do discs but have not done in the past couple of years and told me that they are not getting the results they expected. Remember that they can only use the ProDisc. The only thing that I give them credit for is that they said my back muscles were so strong that an anterior approach for fusion would make more sense for me. I am assuming that the are not experienced with XLIF, because that was not offered or it may be because one of my levels was L5/S1. I did not spend too much time digging deeper because I was already pretty sure I wanted to go to Europe for M6 by the time I met with them. There is an inside story that links me me fairly close to one of the surgeons so I believe they had there best foot forward with me. The one doctor in Buffalo that I would trust is Dr. Cappuccino, Buffalo Spine Surgery. He is the doctor that agreed that 3 level M6 made sense for me and agreed to be my follow-up doctor of record. Unfortunately he was diagnosed with leukemia one month after my surgery and is undergoing a bone marrow transplant at this time. His offices official statement is that they hope he will be back in February. If you would like to discuss the Buffalo doctors, I saw most of them, feel free to contact me.

[TPatti]

You may also want to PM JeffR, he is in the Toronto area and is about a year post-op with a 3 level lumbar performed by Dr. Clavel.

[Brewster]

Saw my GP on Monday. Said the Lumbar MRI revealed some needed work done on my spine. We talked about time, my wife's surgeon is booked into next fall. I told him my impression of Canadian back surgery was that it was in the stone ages, fusion being the only thing they offer. He didn't argue, said he would refer me to any surgeon , even for ADR, which he wasn't as negatively vocal about as before.
He said he could refer me to a young surgeon that he knew , he says he's as good as my wife's surgeon. I went along with it mainly to see how long the process would take.
The pain is getting crazy with it almost paralyzing my legs at times. I hope that this referral turns out to be a 4-6 mth process, he knows I can't wait that long

[Brewster]

T Patti, I spoke to My Spinal Team this am, lady told me they do ADR but primarily deal with workman's comp' cases or accident victims.
I then tried to email TBI and both times Internet Explorer popped up and shut down the link. I called them and the lady told me if the emails got thru' it could take a couple of weeks for a reply. Yesterday I had a lumbar spasm and my legs almost collapsed, I was close enough to grab on to a shelf and kept upright. I have an appointment with my GP and will ask him to apply for out of country support

3 pm, Wow, just got an email from TBI, they're looking at my situation and will get back to me