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Old 11-07-2017, 09:55 PM
Tatonka_usn's Avatar
Tatonka_usn Tatonka_usn is offline
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 76

Best of luck with the upcoming procedure. I'll be curious if see if the VA actually winds up covering the operation, as I've been fighting with them regarding my back issues for several years. Ironically, I just returned from the US following a year of activated reserve duty in Germany, and would have serious considered a couple of the German ADR surgeons had I known this was even an option.
4/07:LBP + radiculopathy=severe L5-S1 herniation , 7/07:Micro-D, 08-09:Reherniation, 09-17: periodic residual symptoms (conservative modalities to maintain "stability" = prolotherapy, ESI/nerve blocks/facet injections, chiro, massage, phys ther), 7/17 pain in neck/right shoulder radiating into hand (no trauma involved), 7-10/17 Conservative treatment to date include physical therapy/dry-needling/facet-injections (C4/5 to C6/7). Researching surgical options should progression continue.
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Old 11-24-2017, 03:08 PM
RabidJ RabidJ is offline
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 34
Default Surgical outcome forum and video blog.....
-18 Years of some level of back pain
-Discectomy at L4L5 in February 2012
-DDD at L4L5 L5S1
-Two-level lumbar ADR L4L5 L5S1 by Dr. Desai November 2017
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Old 12-19-2017, 01:41 AM
Gen.Patton Gen.Patton is offline
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 16

Originally Posted by GKTM300 View Post
I was shown over 100 failed m6 disc X-rays and actual photos of the failed disc as seen on approach. I believe the more I learn about the ball n socket design the more I like it.
Please whatever you do...DO NOT get a ball & socket design (Pro Disc) installed into your Lumbar spine. They may be fine for a cervical application, but in the Lumbar zone they have no shock absorption, & they have no lateral stability which puts all the stresses onto the Facet joints, wearing them out.
I'm pretty much in the same boat you are, and I'm waiting until the third quarter of 2018 when the Axiomed Freedom Lumbar disc will get full F.D.A. approval.
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Old 12-19-2017, 11:36 AM
Gen.Patton Gen.Patton is offline
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 16

Disregard in my last post there where I warned you against getting a Pro Disc.
I just cannot emphasize enough what a catastrophic failure they can cause.
I'm glad to know you were able to get your surgery RabidJ.
And in my opinion, that you didn't get fused is awesome.
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Old 12-19-2017, 10:13 PM
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Harrison Harrison is offline
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,010

Gen Patton, pls see this post to see how to add a signature:

Your post implies that all ProDiscs will fail. This is not accurate. The majority have done well.

Unfortunately, we have seen catastrophic failures -- with many different disc designs. It's mostly a function of the surgeon's skill, training and placement of the discs.

The other BIG part is ensuring the patient is healthy enough to receive the disc; and rule out all other risks, like localized local infection. Ironically, the latter is the least understood and diagnosed; and I would argue the biggest contributor to localized vertebral disease and degeneration which can lead to subsidence.

Case in point:

Cool journal, by the way.
"Harrison" - info (at)
Fell on my ***winter 2003, Canceled fusion April 6 2004
Reborn June 25th, 2004, L5-S1 ADR Charite in Boston
Founder & moderator of ADRSupport - 2004
Founder Arthroplasty Patient Foundation a 501(c)(3) - 2006
Creator & producer, Why Am I Still Sick? - 2012
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Old 12-20-2017, 05:16 PM
Rob Wilson Rob Wilson is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 204

I have had x2 lumbar all and socket ADR's (Maverick design) for 12 years. No major issues.
Rob Wilson
2/06 L4/5, L5/S1 ADR Stenum Hospital - Iliac vein cut w/ occlusion of iliac vein and hematoma
12/06 thru 8/07 Laser Spine Institute - 6 surgeries on L3/4 both sides, L4/5 both sides, L5/S1 both sides

4/08 Bonati Institute - redo of L5/S1 right
8/08 Bonati Institute - redo of L5/S1 left
12/08 Bonati Institute - redo of L4/5 right and left

9/09 Piriformis surgery to remove piriformis muscle causing sciatica
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Old 12-27-2017, 07:06 AM
beaverc beaverc is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 125
Default 2 Level ADR 5/21/2017

RabidJ Hello I was reading about your surgical experience / outcome etc. and noticed the X-ray dated 5/21/2017 with the 2 ADR. Elsewhere it states you had your surgery 11/2017 correct? Am I missing something?
Looking at the X-ray there is in layman's terms some serious looking curvature going on. Was there ever any question as to whether there was too much curve to utilize ADR vs Fusion?
I have been advised an ADR can only be utilized with a specific / limited amount of curvature (been avoiding a 3 level fusion for years).
Thanks for the videos / info.
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Old 01-01-2018, 10:56 PM
beaverc beaverc is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 125
Default Xray adr

RabidJ is this your x-ray???
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Old 02-04-2018, 09:36 PM
Paul C Paul C is offline
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 15

Originally Posted by LHerm View Post
I haven't had as long duration of pain as you have but understand your situation and disc questioning. I had the same selective endoscopic discectomy as you but by another surgeon. It was a bandaid and still glad l did it. It's been a year and I haven't returned to activity that l like - mountain biking, skiing, backpacking, running, and weight lifting.

I've rresearched all the discs. Each manufacturer makes different sizes. Some make several sizes like ActivL and M6. Others only make one size that may be too small for your supporting L5 vertebrae. That's the case with me. I'd love to get the LP-ESP but it's too small. My choice for x-large is choosing between ActivL or M6. I understand your reservation for either. M6 inner disc is only 25 mm which causes problems like the image you showed. It's 25 mm regardless the size of end plates.

Launch your CD and measure the width and length of your L5 vertebrae. Let us know in cm or mm. The size may eliminate some choices. Dr. Rische prefers LP ESP over Freedom. Though he was an investigator of the Freedom disk. The end plates don't bond well to the bone. He's had to remove several Freedom discs after several months with zero bone bonding. That's unacceptable.

Another choice for LP-ESP is Dr. BIREN DESAI in Germany. Total package cost including everything but travel is US $15,800. I would not hesitate going with him. Too bad my vertebra is too large fir this disc.Send a CD to him with your email contact, description of your current pain, and activities and he'll email you after he's reviews your mailed info.

I've heard several accounts that Dr Desai prefers not to implant the LP-ESP in patients over 6'5", which might include me. You make a really good point about the M-6L using the same 25mm inner disc regardless of endplate size, and that is certainly food for thought. I do not know if there is a definite size limit for the vertebral body, and I also don't know if I have measured my own MRI correctly. The LP-ESP sounds like a great disc, but if my size absolutely eliminates me, I may be wasting energy researching that path.

Thoughts appreciated and congrats on your recovery success.
Attached Images
File Type: png Paul 4-5.png (159.0 KB, 19 views)
File Type: png Paul 5-1.png (161.9 KB, 14 views)
37 y/o with 17 years of lower back pain. DDD L5-S1 and L4-L5
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Old 10-17-2023, 10:09 PM
privara privara is offline
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2023
Posts: 7
Default Lazennec contact?

hello how are you ? do you have the LAZENNEC contact?

Originally Posted by RabidJ View Post
Hello everybody, I apologize for taking so long to get back on the forum. I have been working on moving me and my family to Montpellier, France and arrived just a week ago.

I am going to start seeing Doctors here in France to see if the doctors can come to a consensus about what my problem is and what approach is best.

Just before I left the U.S., I saw a VA Doctor in Albuquerque who was a pretty nice guy but didn't really know anything about ADR. The visit was somewhat of a waste of time. I was hoping to get some information from him before I left.

Side note: Veterans are medically covered overseas for any service-connected disabilities. The program is called the VA Foreign Medical Program. If you are overseas for whatever reason and need to be covered, call this number: 303-331-7590

The first Dr that I will be seeing is Dr Gregory Dran. I will see him this Thursday. I am curious to see if he offers LP-ESP and what he thinks about ADR. I'll keep everybody posted.

Dr Thierry Marnay is another doctor that I would like to see here in Montpellier. He performs the Pro-Disc, which I'm not interested in, although I would like to hear him out.

The next Dr on my list to see is a Dr in Paris although this is going to take a little more planning because Jean-Yves Lazennec is in Paris. I am certain that he does the LP-ESP. It may be a little while before I can visit him.

Also, I have been in contact with Dr Rischke in Switzerland and just sent him my MRI. He is currently on vacation so it will be a little while before he gets back to me.

I also sent an email to France Rachis to get information on all of the Doctors here in France that use the LP-ESP........
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