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  #1  
Old 06-24-2015, 03:49 PM
TheGrt8 TheGrt8 is offline
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Default Questions regarding ADR surgery with exercise

Hello everyone,
I just had a 3 level ADR surgery with Dr Pablo Clavel at my C5-C6 / C6-C7 and L4-L5 on May 7th, 2015. The reason for my main surgery was because I couldn't sit down at all. My ischial tuberosity, my inner sitbones and pelvic floor were a mess, along with the fact that I had sharp pain from my waist down into to feet, ankles, calves, etc. It felt like someone was taking a knife cutting into my legs. Secondary was my neck, as I had severe pain in my neck from my face to jaw, to head, to clavicle, to my arms, radiating into my teeth, throat, and chest. I basically couldn't swallow. I must say 7 weeks later that I can eat again and rarely have any neck symptoms anymore. However, my lumbar is a different story:
The good- all my nerve pain and sharp feet, legs, etc is gone.
The bad- I still have sitting pain, and I've been getting deep tissue massages in my legs: hamstrings, quads, calves, IT bands, hips, and gluteals. He has also done some stretching on me, which has now flared up my perineum pain. Oddly enough when I was in Barcelona, the PT Laia stretched me like Gumby and legs were beyond 90 degrees, along with my adductors and entire lumbar.
The PT in the US did the exact same stretches as I explained to him how to do what Laia did and I now have this discomfort in my perineum along with soreness in my hips and si joints. Obviously, I know it's all connected, and is this a temporary issue due to distraction pain?
Should I continue to stretch as well? I'm so perplexed on why this has transpired. I'm still waiting on Dr Clavel's PT script for my cervical and lumbar, however I took the initiative to start Pelvic PT this Friday.
Has anyone experienced this sort of discomfort and issues?
I know that the disc can't and isn't going anywhere, and I usually walk about 1-2 hrs per day.
My inner adductors are extremely tight as it's pulling on my perineum, hips, groin, and SI joints.
Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Before the surgery my legs were locked up in spasm, and now everything with the exception of my crotch is loose and the nerves are gone. Is this just normal muscle spasms from the disc height. Also some minor symptoms, are Obturator soreness and rare sacrum/coccyx soreness. I have no back pain where my L4-L5 above my sacrum was inserted. Also can these muscles that have tighten pull on my spine, or cause issues down the road? Dr Clavel's secretary told me to that deep tissue was ok until PT began and to continue to stretch. For 5 1/2 years my entire body locked up, so I'm assuming with my new spine these issues could be normal. My hips locked up so bad last week that the deep tissue message was intense as he has to release them along with my adductors, and groin. It felt good but got some good bruising as well. I'm at crossroads here, as to what to do?
Continue with massage and pelvic PT until I begin my lumbar and cervical PT as well? Do I continue to stretch, my gluts, hips, psoas, hamstrings, quads, etc?
Thanks again for reading my post and any guidance would be greatly appreciated!
FYI- lumbar spine was jacked up 6mm with M6. Torn disc with fluid loss and disc height
FYI- cervical spine was jacked up 2 3mm with M6 and C5-7. Major loss of disc height with thecal sac compression (DDD). Clavel said MRI of Cervical didn't do justice. I was on the verge of paralyzation, and over 40 US doctors said my spine was fine and to pop pills!
__________________
May '15, 3 level ADR with Clavel
2 ADR M6-C at C5-7 (2 6mm)
-Loss of disc height (DDD), osteophytes, approaching thecal sac with severe nerve compression. On the verge of paralyzation per Dr Clavel, but spine was fine per 40 US Nueros/quacks
1 ADR M6-L at L4-5 (1 10mm)
-Torn disc (fissuring), loss of disc height (mild DDD), approaching thecal sac as well
*Gained 1 1/2- 1 3/4 inches in height due to M6 disc height, and perfect lordosis now

Last edited by TheGrt8; 06-24-2015 at 05:50 PM.
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  #2  
Old 06-25-2015, 10:26 AM
FranklySir FranklySir is offline
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Cool Script

Grt8,

You are very early in recovery. My experience was the more I played with massage and too much stretching the worse things got. When I stopped agitating things and just walked, things calmed down. I did similar things as you and many others did as well. I found working with many others that walking seems to be for MOST people the best thing. Takes three months for things to calm as much as we don't want it to it just takes time an patience.

Sometimes and many times, less is more. Save your energy you will need it for the long haul.

F
__________________
Lumbar issues 18 yrs
herniations lumbar L3-5 multiple Epis etc etc
Annular tears L3-5 cauda equina
Cervical herniation symptoms 2011
C5-7 M6C by Dr Clavel on June 5 2013
L3-5 M6L by Dr. Clavel on 12.18.13
Living life instead of living the condition
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  #3  
Old 06-25-2015, 12:09 PM
colorado babe's Avatar
colorado babe colorado babe is offline
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A friend and member I know on here also had ADR by Dr. Clavel and is experiencing pain in the lumbar where he had M6 at L5-S1. PM me and perhaps the both of you can talk. He is a physical therapist and can perhaps share some insight on exercises.
__________________
1998- Injured neck and back in USAF
2011 - Started experiencing Severe Symptoms, Migranes, numbness, spasms in legs and feet and sciatica.
Feb 2014 - Received upper Lumbar Injection - Severe Allergy to injection
Mar 2014 - MRI of Cervical and Lumbar, protruding disc in C3-7, Herniated Disc in L5/S1, placed on STD and FMLA )
July 2014 - Stem Cell Procedure performed
Oct 20, 2014 - ADR (MOBI-C) at C5-7 and Anterior Fusion at L5/S1 by Dr. Pettine and Dr. Techy
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  #4  
Old 06-25-2015, 09:05 PM
TheGrt8 TheGrt8 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FranklySir View Post
Grt8,

You are very early in recovery. My experience was the more I played with massage and too much stretching the worse things got. When I stopped agitating things and just walked, things calmed down. I did similar things as you and many others did as well. I found working with many others that walking seems to be for MOST people the best thing. Takes three months for things to calm as much as we don't want it to it just takes time an patience.

Sometimes and many times, less is more. Save your energy you will need it for the long haul.

F
Thanks Frank for the advice! It's greatly appreciated.
I'm just going to get light massage and walk from now on. No more stretching etc. My issue was always sitting with sitbone pain, so tomorrow I'm going to see a pelvic specialist to see if she can release some trigger points around my Adductors and perineum. I know a lot is distraction pain, but my symptoms are soreness and achy in those areas, along with my hips, groin, psoas, si's, and outer sides if my back ribs. I was calmed down last week but of course I followed the stretching protocol and it made me sore again. Once again thx!
__________________
May '15, 3 level ADR with Clavel
2 ADR M6-C at C5-7 (2 6mm)
-Loss of disc height (DDD), osteophytes, approaching thecal sac with severe nerve compression. On the verge of paralyzation per Dr Clavel, but spine was fine per 40 US Nueros/quacks
1 ADR M6-L at L4-5 (1 10mm)
-Torn disc (fissuring), loss of disc height (mild DDD), approaching thecal sac as well
*Gained 1 1/2- 1 3/4 inches in height due to M6 disc height, and perfect lordosis now
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  #5  
Old 06-25-2015, 09:31 PM
TheGrt8 TheGrt8 is offline
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You saw Dr Pettine? I sent my films to him and he was an arrogant *******. He told me that he would do stem cell on 5 bad discs, which would involve puncturing my discs (that were already DDD, it's Criminal!) to place the bone marrow in there. Clavel looked at me when we Skyped, and I told him about my experience with Pettine. Clavel's face dropped and said no your L2-L4 is fine. Only issues are your C5-7 and L4-5. Not only that but I paid Pettine $300 for a consult that was supposed to last 30 min, and he told he after 10-15 minutes he had to go to dinner. Nice guy! I hope your experience was a lot better. He told me he's the NFL and the only doctor in the world that can fix people. I said bye, I'll go to the top neurosurgeon in the world with Clavel. Dr Clavel's Skype only cost me $180 and he talked to me for 70 minutes as opposed to his regular 30 min consult. He truly cares about his patients and just was flabbergasted by these US orthos. I would never have a US doctor ever touch me ever again. Clavel did my 3 level ADR in 2 hours, which would take Pettine and TBI 10 hours with 1 day in the hospital. We live in a 3rd world health care system!
Two things to take for this:
1.) Puncturing discs- he should put in jail!
Can't get rid of DDD or osteophytes.
2.) Dr Clavel only does 2 ADR's a day, 3 times a week, as he's a trauma surgeon, and ADR is like making a bowl of cereal for him. He performs brain and heart surgeries, and is a plastic surgeon as well. No scar issue, what's so ever and these scar patches work amazing! That's a true Nuero!! Stay away from US nueros and doctors in my mind! Nothing compares to the M6 disc. Prodisc or Moby-C is like a grade 1-2, while the M6 is a 10.
Sorry I had to vent, and don't take it personal. I just had 40 US doctors say I was fine, and I was on the verge of paralyzation. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks again!
Btw, Dr Light is a joke as well!
__________________
May '15, 3 level ADR with Clavel
2 ADR M6-C at C5-7 (2 6mm)
-Loss of disc height (DDD), osteophytes, approaching thecal sac with severe nerve compression. On the verge of paralyzation per Dr Clavel, but spine was fine per 40 US Nueros/quacks
1 ADR M6-L at L4-5 (1 10mm)
-Torn disc (fissuring), loss of disc height (mild DDD), approaching thecal sac as well
*Gained 1 1/2- 1 3/4 inches in height due to M6 disc height, and perfect lordosis now
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  #6  
Old 06-26-2015, 10:11 AM
FranklySir FranklySir is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 177
Cool

Grt8,

I would also caution the trigger point release as well. Again, just my experience. I tried that (trigger release) as well and WOW it threw me backwards. I know everyone is different, but, for as many people whom I have tried to help along the way the correlation between trying too many things and just walking shines through. The light massage seemed to work alot better after the three month mark for me on both occasions. Remember, nerves are regrowing and waking up so it all changes as time passes which is why it is so difficult and not a linear progression. What works today may not work next week. Keep moving and walking with intent.

Secondly, your fixed now so try to let the bad feelings go. Even writing about the 40 docs here is bad for you IMHO. Move on with positive thought of mind. This is your greatest tool in the box!

F
__________________
Lumbar issues 18 yrs
herniations lumbar L3-5 multiple Epis etc etc
Annular tears L3-5 cauda equina
Cervical herniation symptoms 2011
C5-7 M6C by Dr Clavel on June 5 2013
L3-5 M6L by Dr. Clavel on 12.18.13
Living life instead of living the condition
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  #7  
Old 06-26-2015, 03:35 PM
colorado babe's Avatar
colorado babe colorado babe is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 345
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I find it odd that you say it would take Dr. Pettine 10 hours to perform your surgery. He performed my surgery on C5-7 (mobi-C) and L5-S1 (fusion) and it took him 2 1/2 hours. He also performed a stem cell procedure and I have never felt this good in my life and I am not paralyzed. I am now, hiking, lifting weights, running 10 miles per day and have absolutely no symptoms of my past injuries. My quality of life is better now than if was when I was in my prime.

As far as my opinion on Dr. Pettine, he is a true professional and one of the most brilliant surgeon's I have ever had the opportunity to meet and talk with. When I was in my darkest hours, he gave me hope, took my calls and answer's all my questions. He saved my life and I take great offense that you would bash him on this site.

WE have all had our own personal experiences with surgeons but that doesn't give you the right to damage a persons reputation on the internet based on a quick phone call. In the past when this kind of thing has happened with me, I gently explained my concerns with the surgeon and we were able to discuss them and move forward.
__________________
1998- Injured neck and back in USAF
2011 - Started experiencing Severe Symptoms, Migranes, numbness, spasms in legs and feet and sciatica.
Feb 2014 - Received upper Lumbar Injection - Severe Allergy to injection
Mar 2014 - MRI of Cervical and Lumbar, protruding disc in C3-7, Herniated Disc in L5/S1, placed on STD and FMLA )
July 2014 - Stem Cell Procedure performed
Oct 20, 2014 - ADR (MOBI-C) at C5-7 and Anterior Fusion at L5/S1 by Dr. Pettine and Dr. Techy
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  #8  
Old 06-26-2015, 10:39 PM
TheGrt8 TheGrt8 is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 42
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Frankly,
Thanks for the advice! You're right, positive thoughts from here on out!
Again thanks for the reply and support, it's greatly appreciated!
__________________
May '15, 3 level ADR with Clavel
2 ADR M6-C at C5-7 (2 6mm)
-Loss of disc height (DDD), osteophytes, approaching thecal sac with severe nerve compression. On the verge of paralyzation per Dr Clavel, but spine was fine per 40 US Nueros/quacks
1 ADR M6-L at L4-5 (1 10mm)
-Torn disc (fissuring), loss of disc height (mild DDD), approaching thecal sac as well
*Gained 1 1/2- 1 3/4 inches in height due to M6 disc height, and perfect lordosis now
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  #9  
Old 06-26-2015, 10:45 PM
TheGrt8 TheGrt8 is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colorado babe View Post
I find it odd that you say it would take Dr. Pettine 10 hours to perform your surgery. He performed my surgery on C5-7 (mobi-C) and L5-S1 (fusion) and it took him 2 1/2 hours. He also performed a stem cell procedure and I have never felt this good in my life and I am not paralyzed. I am now, hiking, lifting weights, running 10 miles per day and have absolutely no symptoms of my past injuries. My quality of life is better now than if was when I was in my prime.

As far as my opinion on Dr. Pettine, he is a true professional and one of the most brilliant surgeon's I have ever had the opportunity to meet and talk with. When I was in my darkest hours, he gave me hope, took my calls and answer's all my questions. He saved my life and I take great offense that you would bash him on this site.

WE have all had our own personal experiences with surgeons but that doesn't give you the right to damage a persons reputation on the internet based on a quick phone call. In the past when this kind of thing has happened with me, I gently explained my concerns with the surgeon and we were able to discuss them and move forward.
I tried that and asked his office to have him call me back.
Of course, they dismissed me and wanted me to pay more money to talk him.
No grudges, but I'm thankful I never went to him!
Clavel is the top nuero in the world, and pettine is just a ortho.
The credentials and resumes don't even do justice when you compare the two!
Sorry to offend you if I did. By no means, was it my intention.
I'm glad you are living your life again :-)
__________________
May '15, 3 level ADR with Clavel
2 ADR M6-C at C5-7 (2 6mm)
-Loss of disc height (DDD), osteophytes, approaching thecal sac with severe nerve compression. On the verge of paralyzation per Dr Clavel, but spine was fine per 40 US Nueros/quacks
1 ADR M6-L at L4-5 (1 10mm)
-Torn disc (fissuring), loss of disc height (mild DDD), approaching thecal sac as well
*Gained 1 1/2- 1 3/4 inches in height due to M6 disc height, and perfect lordosis now
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  #10  
Old 06-26-2015, 11:03 PM
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Cynlite Cynlite is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 666
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Although I don't have personal experience with Dr. Light, I am the one that brought him up on this board. Some people have no choice but to stay in the U.S. and rely on their insurance for surgery. I know a patient of his that had surgery last December. He reversed a fusion and put in two Mobi-C discs. She is finally pain free in her neck after 30 years of suffering. So, like Colorado Babe, her life has been improved significantly for the better.

Many people here have also done very well after seeing surgeons at the Texas Back Institute too.

I do appreciate you sharing your thoughts on Dr. Pettine and don't disagree that Europe is ahead of the U.S. I think we just have to be sensitive to other's experiences here. There is a lot of pain, suffering and money involved so, trust me when I say that people read what you write here. Many people have had wonderful outcomes from Dr. Clavel but, while he is the best of the best, his track record is not 100%, even for him. This is also true for Dr. Bierstedt. Spinal surgery is never without risk for any of us. I also don't agree with you that an Ortho is down in the pecking order from a Neuro. They are each specialists that have specialists within their field. If an Ortho has spent his career specializing in ADR, is he less than an Neuro that has specialized in brain surgery? It's not an apple to apple comparison IMO.

It's really too bad that you didn't read Colorado Babe's most generous offer to connect you with one of Dr. Clavel's former patients. I think he could have helped you out and answered some of the questions from your initial post.
__________________
2006: epidural shots did nothing; 2 surgeons recommended 2 level fusion, I declined.
2007 - 2010 4 foraminotomy and cord decompression cervical surgeries and 2 endoscopic discectomy T7-T8 surgeries; total 6 with Dr. Jho (Pittsburgh,PA) My C6/C7 autofused around 2009.
2013 - 2015: epidurals 3 times (again did nothing) and 4 Radiofrequency ablation (or RFA) procedures.
2016 more RFAs, hit the 10 year mark of this insanity and pain, 3 level M6-C ADR with Dr. Clavel May 19, 2016

Last edited by Cynlite; 06-27-2015 at 03:46 AM.
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