Long time lurker, first time poster

[Stonewall_Boris]

Chris,

I wish you the best of luck finding a Canadian doctor that can speak to ADR. My GP was neutral on the issue, he was certainly not up on the procedure. My pan am pain doc was ready to boot me as a patient when I told him I was going to Germany for back surgery. All he heard was back surgery, he never heard Germany. Btw, I agree with him that back surgery in Canada is a bad choice. Good luck with Manitoba Health. Keep in mind you will get a tax break on what is spent going for medical treatment out of Country. You can always get in touch with me if you want. I also know of others that had surgery in Germany that live around Steinbach, I'm sure they wouldn't mind talking to you.

Brew,

I was 53 when I went for the surgery. Taking a financial hit to our retirement funds played a lot in my mind. We had to remortgage our house to do the surgery. Certainly in my mind I was thinking how many more years do I have to work to pay for it. Ironic isn't it. Have to pay big bucks to go to another country for surgery that you can't get in your country so you can get back to work full time and pay taxes for the same medical system that could do nothing for you!

[Brewster]

Chris is lucky that someone one here will talk about ADR. We are truly behind the times, ten years behind the US and decades behind Europe. BTW the procedure across the pond was 32K euros , two level laminectomy in Florida is $26K. No totally sure either would do it for me, thinking of a hybrid, ADR @4/5 and a form of fusion at 5/S1. The procedure put forth in Germany was an ADR in conjunction with the TOPS device, one that has not been mentioned here

[wpgchris]

My doctor was trained in Norway, and eventually came to Canada so I think she's more open minded about possible treatments. We'll see.

With Manitoba Health, I want to at least find out for myself what their feedback is. Somewhere during my online searches, I found a report that stated this (ADR) is a procedure covered by Manitoba Health, but there were no references so to me that doesn't hold much water. Thanks for the tip on the tax break, hadn't thought of that one.

At this point I recognize that this procedure will most likely be 100% out of pocket and with recent exchange rate changes will be in the 50k range. But if there's anything I can do to lessen that burden I'll give it a shot.

Boris, thanks for the offer to introduce me to other patients. As I continue my research I will take you up on that offer.

How far ahead do the doctors in Germany book? Do I have to make the decision weeks ahead or months? I would be targeting to have the surgery done this fall, Sept/Oct based on work/life commitments already in place.

[Stonewall_Boris]

Chris,

Surgery should be your absolute last resort. PT, MT, acupuncture, tens, a physiatrist, chiropractor, prolotherapy, meds, nsaids, calmags, should all be explored. Nutrition, a lot of good advice on that on this forum should all be explored. Harrison has some interesting perspective on it, it should all be explored before surgery.
Even if you consider surgery you should make sure that your pain generator will be fixed by the surgery.
I stayed away from the thought of surgery until one day, which was a very bad day, when my head dropped and I knew everything I had tried did not work and I knew I had to go to the next level. I can remember exactly when that happened. I also remember feeling that surgery was a long shot. I had tried everything to avoid surgery.

[wpgchris]

Boris, sorry for the late reply, I was away from my home and my computer.

Thanks for the tips on nutrition, I've started going through the forums to research ideas.

Regarding the other treatments you listed, I've already been through/going through PT, MT, acupuncture, tens, and a chiro. Haven't heard of prolotherapy or a physiatrist, are these practitioners/treatments available locally?

Calmags....do you mean calcium/magnesium capsules? I'll have to look that one up too.

Been through over the counter and prescription nsaids, honestly I'd like a fix not a band-aid.

My physical treatments have actually helped a lot over the past year to the point where I can now go to the gym regularly as long as I focus on good form. My strength and mobility are up, and pain has been reduced but at this point I'm not sure how much 'better' I'm going to get. Sitting with poor posture or rolling out of bed too quickly give me swift reminders of my condition. This is why I'm contemplating surgery. And it's also why I'm here, to learn from others and their experiences.

[Stonewall_Boris]

Hey wpgchris,

Prolotherapy is available in Winnipeg, I'll PM you the name of who I've heard of but never went to. The prolotherapist that I went to moved to burnaby bc. I considered him to be very good. A physiatrist, doctor of physical medicine or a pain doc is covered by Manitoba health. There are public and private ones. The public ones practice out of HSC, the pan am clinic, riverbend and a few other places. My wife goes to a public one that I consider one of the best, okay the best, public or private. You'll need a referral to get to see her and you don't want to compromise on that.
Calmags are calcium magnesium. There are a few posts here as to opinions as to what kind of Calmags work best.
As for acupuncture I'll PM you the name of the one I consider the premiere one in Winnipeg.