Germany prices negotiable?

[annapurna]

Originally Posted by trkdoc714

I also read the posts about how bad Stenum is. But I have decided if the diagnosis is for ADR, Stenum is where I'll go. There have been a few stories about them in past posts but if you anylize the stories and the story tellers, most, if not all aren't exactly fact based. The most celebrated of the stories ended up with the patient totally pain free.

There have been proven true stories for how Stenum screwed up patients beyond recovery and proven true stories for how Stenum saved patients and produced incredible results. If you really analyzed the stories, you'd find both ends of the spectrum a good distribution between the poles.

[rhatzy]

There are also horror stories on this site about surgery done by doctor B. No surgery is without risk. I believe the two surgeons at Stenum have done more ADR's than anyone on earth and that, along with the Maverick, is why i chose them. I am a success story having come into this surgery with a lot of baggage including two discectomies, mild facet hypertrohy, a lot of scar tissue and who knows what else. One year later, I am pain free and back flying as captain with american airlines.

However, you have to weigh all your options and risks and make a decision. It definitely wasn't an easy one for, in fact one of the most difficult and scariest one I have ever made. So, as they say, "choose wisely, grasshopper".

mark

[trkdoc714]

Mark, Laura, Gil,,

Thank you all for your input. The point I'm at is the result of nearly 2 years of information gathering. Risk vs benefit has been high on the list of the PSDM items for study. I've seen nothing connected to Stenum that isn't in all surgeons "warning" list. Even with minimal invasion procedures they warn us of deep vein thrombosis from the procedure.

I've been having my PM dr injecting at different levels and combination levels for the last year. I truly think the problem areas have been isolated by this process. I'll find out next month with my next visit to him.

I'm taking in all of the diagnosis I've had and if we agree with one of them in total (or stick with conservitive care), that's the direction I'll go.

Thanks again,

Bob

[CharlesinCharge]

I went to Stenum and had a good experience (as have some others like Terry), but they did have some bad outcomes. However, Dr. Zeegers and Dr. Bertagnoli have had some bad outcomes as well, though both are absolutely top-flite ADR surgeons. In particular, I remember a woman Anastasia that used to be on this board, that had a one level ADR done by Dr. B. and ended up in far worse pain after surgery. His office would not help her and denied any culpability, but she went to many other doctors and the consensus was that her facet joints were completely deteriorated and she never should have been a candidate for ADR. Dr. B. would not do a revision or help her, and she ended up suicidal and fortunately she was eventually able to get a doctor in France to remove the disc.

At any rate, when I was at Stenum there were a couple of patients there that had taken out 2nd mortages on their home to pay for the surgery. They would not do that if the price was negotiable, but they were so desperate and in so much pain (like me) that they were willing to go into debt to fix their back. I make a good living and so had the $35,000 in savings to pay for the surgery, and even though it was a big hit to my bank account I would do it again in a heartbeat. I have my life back, and so it was the best $35K I ever spent!

[jettylou]

Thanks for all the replies, I know I need to have multi-level ADR at this point. I was supposed to have single level here in Utah but was denied at the last minute. After consulting with my surgeon after the denial by insurance, he assured me that ADR was the absolute best option for me and that he would not get a fusion unless they had to drag him into it.
I am leaning toward Stenum at this time, my dad is a physician and when i showed him the negative comments on Stenum his response to me was...everyone is so quick to blame the doctor. There are many many factors that go into a surgery like this, such as: underlying patient pathology, previous treatments etc...

Also, Stenum uses the Maverick disc which, after a lot of research and talking with doctors, is far and away the best on the market today. I may send them an email today asking if their rates are negotiable, I will let you know what they say.

Tim

[CharlesinCharge]

Tim,

You have absolutely nothing to lose by contacting Stenum and asking if they will negotiate a lower rate for you---the worst they can say is No. I do know that Stenum is known for taking on very difficult cases and patients that have been turned away by other ADR surgeons, so that would lead to a higher rate of bad outcomes. But, as I said I would also have no problem going to Dr. Zeegers or Dr. Bertagnoli (though both are more expensive than Stenum), as they have outstanding reputations and have done great work for many people on this board.

[jettylou]

Charles,
I think you are right, it won't hurt to ask, and besides with the way the economy is here at least I can use that as a factor. I will let you know what they say.
Tim

[jettylou]

The word has come down from Stenum that their price is set by their board of directors and cannot be changed.

[CharlesinCharge]

I am sorry to hear that, but not surprised. Like I said, in my group of 6 that had surgery at Stenum there were a few that were undergoing financial hardship to pay for their procedures. But, they were in terrible pain and suffering like me, and just had no choice. I was really lucky, because I had savings that I used to pay for it without having to go into debt or anything (and my parents are very well off and later paid me back for 1/2 of my costs). But, many many people have extreme trouble paying $35K - $50K out of their own pocket and so are between a rock and a hard place when it comes to these overseas procedures.

[Grumpy]

Mango,
Everything gets better later on...trouble is can you stand it to wait? I can't.

But Sternum quoted me $49,000 us funds. OUCH. My doc was going to get me in at Yale in Conneticut with the doctor there who has been doing the surgeries with Dr. B. I'm calling her (my spine doc) tomorrow to see if she got anywhere or even remembered to contact them.

I'm killing myself with all the pain meds I have to take and if I don't have this surgery by this fall I don't know what I'll do.