Quick Introduction

[Sandra D]

I was not sure how to get started but here goes. I currently live in Perth Western Australia but I am originally from South Africa. I injured myself in 2004 while cleaning a spa bath. Slipped and fell on my behind, damaging L3,L4 and L5 and cracking a vertebra. Six months later I herniated L5/S1 with just a sneeze. What a stupid way to ruin ones' life. It should at least be with something more interesting, like bungy jumping or skydiving?? Went through all the usual procedures, scans, injections, acupuncture,discogram etc etc and the recommendation was for a fusion, which I did not want. After 18 months and no alternative offered by local doctors, I eventually went to South Africa in May 2006 and a neurosurgeon there advised ADR. I was in such bad shape by then I undertook the surgery without even knowing exactly what was to be done and so heavily medicated I honestly couldn't care. Must say it was the quickest I ever lost weight though (6 Kg) in a single week before my surgery!!!

A maverick disc was used to replace L5, but it was decided to leave L3 and L4 alone. The surgery went well and the initial recovery was nothing short of miraculous to me. Pain levels instantly dropped and the only pain left seemed to be muscular pain and to be expected, considering the nerve damage. I was assured that with therapy and rehab, all would be well. Unfortunately, this has not been the case and almost three years down the track I still have the same muscular/nerve pain and with new problems cropping up. Well, that's about it in a nutshell. I currently spend most of my day doing some sort of rehab; yoga, swimming, walking, massaging the aching bits, acupuncture and a lot of whinging(Australian for complaining). Not really complaining all that much; as I find laughing at myself when I am in pain instead of crying, whether upward or downward dogging in yoga or shuffeling along trying to keep up with the more able bodied, is the only way to get through this.

Regards

Sandra

[Harrison]

Sandra, thanks for posting. But sorry you're here! I'll chime back in soon after others have a chance to post.

You're among friends!

[Maddie]

Hi Sandra,

I'm glad to meet you and so sorry that you still have pain. I am interested in your case as my homeopathic doctor is from South Africa, and her daughter there had a single level ADR done last year with great success so far.

She did have more troublesome levels, but her doctor chose to only do one on her as well...very conservative there maybe? So far the pain is gone.

Maybe if you need more information on that we could exchange information later.

May I ask what the cost was for that surgery? You can PM me if you like or not at all if that is too much information I am comparing costs from different countries for my surgery too.

[CharlesinCharge]

Sandra,

I can relate to your story, especially to a surgeon taking the conservative route instead of trying to fix all the problems at once. My back pain started out of the blue in 9/05 (no specific injury) and by 11/05 I had an MRI and it showed 3 levels affected---two looked very bad and one looked somewhat bad. When I had my discogram a couple of months later, the two very bad levels tested positive for concordant pain but the somewhat bad level did not. When I went to Germany to have my ADR surgery, I told the surgeon to just go ahead and replace all three levels---why not be proactive since the 3rd level would probably continue to degenerate and I did not want to come back and have another surgery down the road. But, he declined and so I just had the two levels replaced.

Like you, I got immedate pain relief and felt pretty good after the surgery, but I NEVER got back to 100%, only about 75% (I remember being jealous of people like Harrison that had 100% relief of their pain). About a year later my pain started to increase, and when they eventually re-tested the 3rd level that was not replaced (via discogram), they found it now tested positive and had further degenerated and was causing the pain. I had to have another operation to fuse that level (9/08), and I am almost 7 months out from that surgery and doing very well.

So, the point of my long winded story is this---have you had your other two levels that were not operated on re-tested (via MRI and more importantly discogram)? I think this would be critical, as they may have degenerated further (as mine did) and unfortunately a second surgery may be necessary to stop your continued pain. I know there could be many other things that are causing your pain, but I think the FIRST place I would look would be the discs that were problematic the first time around but were not replaced. Have you done that?

Best of luck,

[steve55]

CHarles, after reading your story, Im glad I had all 3 levels done. My 3rd level C4/5 was not producing pain but had a tear and was leaking the test dye into my spinal canal. Dr Bertagnoli(a german doctor) actually encouraged me to have it replaced if it looked bad during his discogram. I was hesitant at first, but he;s the doc, so I told him to make that decision for me once he was able to see it better. Looking back, Im glad I did do it, because in case I still have symptoms, at least I wont regret not having getting the 3rd one done. Its alot easier to have pain when you know you did all you could,......As opposed to having pain and be wondering "should I have gotten that 3rd one replaced also" and then kickin your self in the butt all the time.

[Harrison]

Charles, thanks for your candor, it's the first time I read this with your perspective. One way of looking at my situation is that I was able to remove the disease process early enough so that it did not spread to adjacent tissue & other levels. I've been saying this for years, but I hope we see smart execs birth new diagnostic companies that identify DDD much earlier in the process!

I'll leave you with a few movie taglines that express my hope & admiration for these companies that can & will help spine patients assess their conditions more clearly:

"Show me the money!"

"If you build it, they will come."

What's the third one? I can't have just two!?

Sandra, I am writing a long post that relates to your situation (and many others) and will post it later this week. I hope you are doing OK, considering your post.

[cathydownunder]

Sandra-welcome. Sorry to hear you may be needing further surgery...been there/done that and it's not a great place to be!

There's an organisation called the Spine Arthroplasty Society that has a worldwide register of affiliated/registered doctors. There are two listed for Perth. #1 Paul Bannon, #2 Quentin Malone. If you don't already have a recommended ortho ot neuro specialist Id suggest giving them a call.

As previously suggested though, it would be beneficial to arrange a discogram of your suspect discs to confirm them as pain generators although I don't think our GP's here can request them so you might have to see a specialist first for a referral for one. Teher's not many of us Aussies here so if you'd like to chat further send me a PM.

Good luck cathy

[Sandra D]

Hi Maddie, It's so nice to meet you too. I think that you are probably right about the South African doctors being fairly conservative. However, they have been performing this type of surgery (maverick) for quite a while now and they may have reasons for being conservative perhaps?? My operation cost me approximately R 150 000.00 three years ago. This included everything, xrays, mri's, discogram, hospital stay, surgeons fees (neuro and general) physio, maverick disc, and medication. This would convert to approximately USD 15 000.00. Compared to other countries, this is a pretty reasonable amount. You would have to bear in mind though that you would probably have to stay in South Africa for about 2 months, to include all consultations, hospital stay and recovery afterwards. I was not allowed to travel by air for 6 weeks after my surgery. The only other problem with surgery in a foreign country is that normally your medical insurance does not cover the cost and any follow up visits are difficult. If you have a good relationship with a local specialist who will do the follow ups for you, then this would not be a problem. Hope this is helpful. Should anyone consider surgery in South Africa, I would be happy to assist with as much information as possble.
Regards

Sandra

[Sandra D]

Hi Charles, Steve, Harrison. Thanks for the input. I am afraid that I have not had any further tests done besides an MRI and CT. I have not had too much luck with the local doctors here and have difficulty even getting someone to explain the results of my scans to me. It seems that because I have had my surgery overseas, they are not too interested. Cathy has suggested two doctors here in Perth and I will give them a try. If I don't have any luck with them, I will try to go to South Africa in July. I am so happy to hear that you have had 100% success Steve, as it gives me hope. Are you pain free now too Charles??

Regards

Sandra

[Sandra D]

Hi Cathy, Great to meet a fellow Aussie. Thanks for the info. I don't know how to send private messages or add friends etc yet, but I will get round to it as I would love to chat.
Regard

Sandra