Can't seem to get a straight answer. S

[CG Brady]

I have cervical issues. C2-3 is not bad.

Moderate degeneration @ C3-4 osteophytes associated with bilateral stenosis.

C4-5 Facet arthrosis and moderate right and mild lefet formainal narrowing

C5-6 has spondylytic ridge spondilitic bulge moderate bilateral foraminal narrowing. There is mild canal stenosis identified. The cord is contacted and slightly indented

C6-7 has slight spondylitic change mild bilateral foraminal narrowing.

When my problems 1993 first started I had a disk herniation at C5-6. I was in horrible pain. Doctors would look at my MRI and say, "you shouldn't be in that much pain. Physical therapy was useless and made me feel worse. The only time I was pain free was in 2005 when I saw and atlas orthogenol DC in Asheville NC. I was pain free for 8 mos but then we moved and thter were no other available.

Had many couses of injections that were minimally effective.

I am looking at RFA for the C5-6 nerve. Have read that is works for 6 mos to a year but has many dangers.

Surgeon says cleaning out osteophytes makes them come back even worse withing a few months. Others say he's wrong.

Asked about ADR he says it will make me worse because they over rotate and give to much range of motion. Makes sense but is it true.

I really feel I am getting the run around and the sales job form MDs and DC's. The DC is am seeing thinks an ADR would help me at C5-6 but does worry about to much range of motion.

M6 disk that is more like the real thing but not even in clinical trials in the US.

I asked the surgeon what my condition would be if magically C5-6 disk became normal. He would not venture a guess. He's a fusion guy. Fusions seem barbaric. You'd think a device with end-plates would make more sense since so many fusions fail to fuse. I feel like we are living in the dark ages.

Was put on hellish drugs. One was a muscle relaxer called Skelaxin. If made me restless and nervous but the longer I was on it the worse it got. I had what were panic attacks but the were terrifying and I hallucinated. Found out others had similar experiences. I was given Lyrica but based on the side effects http://www.askapatient.com/viewrating.asp?drug=21723 I am steering clear of that rattle snake.

How does one get the real facts? Being that MDs did nothing but make me worse of the the years and given the people I know with failed back surgery syndrome I don't know what to do.

Checked into that LSI and they said they remove bone and spurs but the surgeon who I last saw says that will make me worse.

Checked into Stenum but they sound like a scam but they do implant M6 disk which makes more sense that a ball & socket. I also found out that they don't test to see if you are allergic to titanium.

I wish there was some standardization and some honest data. I can find out how many home runs any major league player hit but I cannot find the error rates of doctors.

Once bone is removed does it grow back worse than before?

Is over rotation a problem with the ADRs available in the US?

What is the failure rate for fusions?

Why is the infection rate so high in US hospitals? According to Betsy McCaughy and the CDC it is 1 in 20 or 1.7 million hospital acquired infections each year?

Why should patients be required to pay for a surgery if it doesn't work?

[JJames]

CG Brady -

Since I don't have any of the answers to the questions which you're seeking, I at least wanted to let you know that you are very much not alone in your confusion.

I have not posted on the Boards here in quite some time, but I do check them daily. Although my issues are with my lumbar spine, I am also completely confused and extremely suspicious of what each of the so-called professionals tell me. Mostly because their opinion often swings from "you need a major surgery to replace these two discs" at one appointment, and after my medical insurer denies that surgery at a later appointment makes remarks such as "you shouldn't be in this much pain based on the MRI"!

I have seen many surgeons for their opinions. Five out of the six strongly discouraged me from ever allowing anyone to perform a fusion on my back due to my DDD condition. The one surgeon who suggested fusion instead of ADR had his name printed in a controversial newspaper article a week later reporting on doctors who had big money invested in devices (ADR) which they were conducting clinical trials on!

I have been seeing a Chiropractic doc since January. No relief from my lower back and leg pain, so I'm a little uncertain why I'm still going 3 times per week. Even the acupuncturist who I tried for a while ended up trying to pull a fast one on the insurance company. That didn't work either!

I feel your frustration and completely agree with the points you make. I am stuck too. I somehow have been barely able to hold onto my job (not sure for how much longer) and otherwise do nothing else. My marriage and family are at about the breaking point, yet I am unable to get any straight answers from any medical professional who can do something about my issues.

I truly wish you the best of luck in your search for answers and most importantly some good solutions.

Jeff

[CG Brady]

I did find this http://www.chiroandosteo.com/content/15/1/7

These sound like legit studies on disk regeneration. The consensus seems to be that plain old traction properly done is helpful. I checked into spinal decompression and had 3 sessions. This was done by an MD. The machine malfunctioned and I was injured and needed shots in my left spinal erector muscle. This was on an Accuspina machine. I also went to a DC about DXR 9000 and he showed me an MRI of one of "his" patients but after a little research online I saw the identical MRI showing a reducted L-4 disk.

I am trying traction with a PT who has an open mind and I have had some improvement. I was told by many MDs that herniated disks will not improve with traction. I was told by DCs that adjustments can cause disk reductibility and shown some scant evidence of it.

Here is what I think now and here is what I am doing.

I really feel that I recieved some bad advice and poor treatment form both MDs and DCs but I feel the MDs were worse. It just seems reasonable to me that if I could get pressure off of the nerve roots I would feel much better. Traction seems to be working a little bit for me. I am hoping the results are cumlative.

I know for a fact that repeated stress and stretching causes the disks to become more visco elastic. No one would dispute that. I just started taking papain end bromelain that are two proteolitic enzymes. Bromelain is also an anti inflamatory. Chemopapain injections are used on herniated lumbar disks but I don't know how effective they are.

Bromelain comes form pineapples and papain come from the papaya. I am taking them in pill form. I am also taking glucosamine. I have read studies that conflict but I am still trying it along with MSM.

There are traction devices that can be used at home. I have heard that gravity inversion is very effective for lumbar but have not researched it.

I wish I had listened to my inner voice on this one instead of the many MDs I saw and done traction long ago.

My current method is to strech and release in short intervals and then hold for 15 -20 minutes so that when the dicks "re-harden" the will stay slightly larger in height. That's my theory based on what I read.

Do it think a disk can regenerate? I do. The question is how likely is it and what positive effect it will have?

I am not here to bash MDs or DCs but I really think they think they know more than they really do and I think many of them care much more about money than people.

I think that disk reductablity is real and I think with proper hydration and the right nutrients it can happen for some people. IMO, and this my be wishful thinking I think it is better than 50/50 that it will help.

The DC who did help me was big on hydration and it is my own fault that I didn't drink enough water all the time. He stressed really pure water so I have a water filter and I am drinking a lot of water now even when I am not thirsty.

As to ADR I think that the M6 makes most sense for me because it mimics the real thing. I don't understand why this surgeon a fusion guy is telling me even the M6 would make me worse. It looks to me like a few millimeters of extra space at C5-6 would fix most of my problems if it is implanted right.

I have seen some videos of ADR and fusions and to me they look a lot more like carpentry than cabinetry and the devices look barbaric. It seems that there are fastener geometry available as a hardware store that could hold an ADR and even a properly milled fusion bone into place better than the way it is done now. The mechanical engineering seems crude and poorly thought out. I am hoping that regenerative medicine creates a solution for back restoration because the options today seem like something they would have done 50 years ago.

I actually designed a disk that I think is better than even the M6 because it is held into place with a left handed and right handed thread and had a flexible material in the center. It can decompress the space it is in and the spaces above and below it using a turn buckle action. The adjustment can be as precise as a Swiss watch. It could also be milled from real bone for the end plates and a monkey could implant it. Maybe we had better start sending monkeys of med school. Ooops I think we do already.

Ideally we should be growing disks with a synovial layer that will fuse in a matter of weeks when implanted. The technology exists already. There are also chemicals that will inhibit unwanted bone growth.

Hopefully the Chinese of some less capitalist economy will seize the opportunity to build a better mousetrap and show our spine industry how it done.